Forget Apple fanboys, what about Apple doomsayers?

iMore ^ | Friday, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:15 am EDT | BY JOHN MOLTZ

[bolobaby]

I posted it on the other thread where you flipped out on me, so I’m really doubting this whole, “I didn’t know” bit...

[bolobaby]

Oops - now I’m the liar. I didn’t post it on the thread. I sent it to another Freeper in Freepmail who was willing to have a “normal” discussion about Apple vs [Anything Else].

I should have remembered it wasn’t on the thread because the discussion was... you know... *reasonable* and objective.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Swordmaker]

"Promoting your product" is competitive.

No, it isn't. What if your product has no competition? You are merely trying to get attention of the customers for your product. For example, the California Milk Board promotes the consumption of milk. . . and milk producers are prohibited from advertising their individual makes. When the phone company was a monopoly, they still promoted their services.

When a new product is introduced, totally unique, such as a new drug with no comparative treatment, they will advertise to let patients and doctors know about the treatment.

Your conclusion is erroneous. There is informative commercials. . . and promotion that is not "competitive."

[Swordmaker]

There's no technical content in the article, and this isn't a technical discussion. It's meant keep the "haters" meme going. It's good publicity for Apple, and promulgating it here co-opts this site as a propaganda tool for them.

You are accepting the sobriquet, it seems. You are one of the prime examples.

[Swordmaker]

So, it's not just me. It appears you've created a definition of "competition" unlike anything most people understand it to mean to make yourselves appear victimized.

Apple understands exactly how their are advertising and to whom. They are not competing "against" any company but rather "to" their customers. Don't you see the difference in those two statements? The competition is obsessed with beating the competition. . . Apple is not. Apple is obsessed with pleasing the customer.

You, like most anti-Apple complainers, will latch onto anything to argue. You cannot comprehend why Apple is different, and that difference is why Apple is where it is today. . . not because of nefarious activities, or the delusional hyper-loyalty of a crazed fan base.

[Swordmaker]

I posted it on the other thread where you flipped out on me, so I’m really doubting this whole, “I didn’t know” bit...

I have never "flipped out on you," bolobaby. There is just another one of your attempts to belittle me and make me out to be an insane fanatic who "goes off" on people for no reason. You are the irrational one who comes into Apple threads and spreads your bile. You never posted anything of the kind to me. . . I do not lie, but you prefer to call me a liar.

[Swordmaker]

Sorry for the confusion.

Apology accepted.

[tacticalogic]

Apple understands exactly how their are advertising and to whom. They are not competing "against" any company but rather "to" their customers. Don't you see the difference in those two statements? The competition is obsessed with beating the competition. . . Apple is not. Apple is obsessed with pleasing the customer.

Apple is competing with every company that sells something for the money in your pocket. Nuancing "competing" to make it something unrecognizable by most people, and then complaining about being misunderstood is simply fabricating an argument.

[Svartalfiar]

So, all those mac hippy geek vs office pc guy commercials weren't Apple trying to steal Windows users? Or did Apple not make/publish them?

Did Microsoft sell computers? No. Again, Apple was selling to CUSTOMERS. . . not against competitors. Not one of those ads was targeted against any specific maker of another computer. . . but instead targeted toward the users' experience. . . and telling them the computing experience did not have to be what they were used to. Those ads were very effective because every PC user experienced what they saw the personification of their PC doing.

Are you retarded? Apple didn't aim those ads at Lenovo or Dell or HP.. They are aimed at Microsoft. Here Apple is competing as an operating system, not as hardware. Apple doesn't so much compete against those manufacturers so much as it competes against Windows. Then, once a user picks Windows, they have Dell or Lenovo. Sure, Apple does have some competition with them as they are the hardware that runs Windows, but Apple's marketing strategy doesn't fight that fight nearly as hardcore as they do against Microsoft.

If you;re selling to customers, why would you even mention any of your competitors in your ads? Why would you even have ads? Your customers are already buying your product, the only advertising you need is newer models. bigger stuff. Not "Hey, Windows sucks so switch to Apple!"

[Swordmaker]

Are you retarded? Apple didn't aim those ads at Lenovo or Dell or HP.. They are aimed at Microsoft. Here Apple is competing as an operating system, not as hardware. Apple doesn't so much compete against those manufacturers so much as it competes against Windows. Then, once a user picks Windows, they have Dell or Lenovo. Sure, Apple does have some competition with them as they are the hardware that runs Windows, but Apple's marketing strategy doesn't fight that fight nearly as hardcore as they do against Microsoft.

You start your discussion with an insult.

NO, Apple is not competing with an Operating system. Apple is selling a user experience. Apple is not selling an operating system!

Again you Anti-Apple haters miss the point. Apple doesn't sell an operating system to buyers. The consumers cannot buy it and install it on their computers. Sorry.

You still miss the point.

Apple doesn't ever mention Microsoft in their ads. . . they refer to PC. . . and Mac. The customers they are directing their ads to are their future customers.

I am beginning to think you anti-Apple haters will always miss the point. . . you are that dense.

[bolobaby]

Look man - I don’t spread bile. I simply question “the party line” on Apple. For some reason, you take that very personally and think that makes me an “Apple Hater.” If you actually go back and read my posts, you’ll find that I’m usually being pretty objective. I also continue to reiterate that I don’t *hate* Apple, I just think that they make missteps which cost them *market share*. I’ve said many times that I actually have had Apple products, but I *prefer* my Note 3. Again, you lob irrational accusations at me that - because I prefer my Samsung - I’m some kind of “hater.”

I *prefer* apple pie. Does that make me part of the Pumpkin Pie Haters club? You start to sound like those liberals throwing around words like “homophobic” just because someone doesn’t want gay sex thrust in their face on prime time TV.

You do yourself a horrible disservice by freaking out like this on anyone who joins an Apple-based thread to... you know... actually *discuss* the topic. I’ve been pinged by a number of Freepers who sort of view it as a running gag on the forum.

I know, I know... you get pinged by other Freepers who commiserate with you about the Apple Haters Club(tm).

The funny thing is, I’d like to assume we’re more alike than NOT since we are both on FreeRepublic. I had a hard time figuring that out last time I looked through your posting history because all I saw was Apple related posts - for, like, NINE pages before I finally gave up. That’s when I wondered, “Holy crap - is this guy a social marketer or what???”

Let’s assume your not. Let’s assume - like me - your a conservative. Let’s assume - like me - you might be a veteran. Let’s assume - like me - you may value life.

Then why do you allow this ONE THING - your love for Apple products - to turn you into a rabid fiend who will call for his entire Ping List to attack someone just because they dare to question the almighty Apple? People who will post such lovely sentiments as “Stop your anal bleeding,” amongst other pleasantries?

It’s unbecoming.

Let’s get along as conservatives (if you really are one) and dare to... *gasp*... actually have reasoned debate when it interests both parties.

If reasoned debate doesn’t interest you - fine. Simply don’t respond to posters expressing a contrarian view instead of devolving into puerile tactics. Bear in mind, however, that Apple dissenters actually have a right to post on those threads until Jim Robinson decides they don’t. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous, however, that you and your ping list have decided that dissenting views on your threads are to be attacked and shooed away. If that’s how you really feel, don’t post on FR, but post in a forum where everyone loves Apple!

[tacticalogic]

If you actually go back and read my posts, you’ll find that I’m usually being pretty objective.

If you look at the title and premise of the article you'll see that the author is telling us that all criticism needs to be leveled in one direction only. If you're being objective, you're not doing it right.

[Swordmaker]

Apple is competing with every company that sells something for the money in your pocket. Nuancing "competing" to make it something unrecognizable by most people, and then complaining about being misunderstood is simply fabricating an argument.

That is not competing against other computer makes, that is just doing business. You do not understand what we are talking about. . . and deliberately obfuscating the issues. What you just described is what we were saying.

[Svartalfiar]

You start your discussion with an insult.

My insult is based on you completely ignoring the evidence. Or maybe you've never seen any of the Mac vs PC ads, in which case I helpfully posted a link to youtube for you in post 26. The VERY FIRST ad in that compendium is Apple making fun of Microsoft, and trying to claim, and I quote, "[Macs] are better at a lot of stuff, like pictures, music, movies.." You argue Apple isn't going against anyone, yet their entire mac v pc ad lineup is Apple denigrating Windows, suggesting current PC users switch to a Mac because it's better. Find a new argument, quit repeating yourself. Maybe read and actually respond to our arguments instead of repeating the same talking points. Intelligent debate. I know it's something rare for any Apple (or anti-Apple!) fanboi. Just like the Glock idiots, or the Catholic bashers.

NO, Apple is not competing with an Operating system. Apple is selling a user experience. Apple is not selling an operating system!

Apple is selling a computer that comes with it's own OS. Given that Apple really doesn't support modular construction, they really can't say they are competing in the hardware department. Macs are all pre-built and mostly non-user-modifiable. (I don't count swapping RAM or harddrives. You can't build a Mac from parts.) Apple doesn't target ads at Dell or Lenovo, they target ads at Microsoft. So yes, I would say they are competing against Windows moreso then Lenovo or any pc manufacturers. Or, I'll help you out and change into Newspeak: Apple's user experience is doing the same thing as against Microsoft's user experience. That user experience is how people interact with their software and hardware. And Apple sells one product, Microsoft sells another in conjunction with the pc manufacturers. Same product, different brands. Or do you think Ford's diesel F250 doesn't compete with Ram's gas powered 1500? They run on different fuels, so obviously they have completely separate customer bases, right?

Again you Anti-Apple haters miss the point. Apple doesn't sell an operating system to buyers. The consumers cannot buy it and install it on their computers. Sorry.

Actually, yes, you can install OS# on non-Apple computers. Have you ever heard the term Hackintosh? Also, following this link to apple.com shows you just where Apple sells their OS to you, the buyer. For $19.99, free shipping. For a rabid pro-Apple dude, you really don't know much about their products. Just like the other thread where you didn't know Apple laptops' video-out adaptors were sold separately.

You still miss the point.

The point being what, exactly? That you think Apple doesn't sell exactly what they sell?

Apple doesn't ever mention Microsoft in their ads. . . they refer to PC. . . and Mac. The customers they are directing their ads to are their future customers.

And, by PC, they mean Windows, the only OS they are really competing with. Linux doesn't have that office-geeky feel, and that leaves... Windows. And who, exactly, do you think their future customers are? You have two options here: current Mac users, and non-Mac users. (Hint: the second option is the guys who currently use their, wait for it... competitors!)

I am beginning to think you anti-Apple haters will always miss the point. . . you are that dense.

Actually, you would be the anti-Apple hater; we would be the so-called Apple haters, or be anti-Apple. And yes, when you keep repeating yourself, there really isn't much of a point for us to get. You're trying to spear us with a club here. (Haha joke's on you - we're too dense for that!)
Funny though, just because I'm not a rabid pro-Apple fanboi, you assume I'm rabidly anti-Apple. Just because I think they have some stupid designs on some of their products, and don't care for some of their business model, doesn't mean I hate Apple. As bolobaby mentioned in 51, you are so defensive about any littlest slight to Apple that it really begs the question of why you're even on this forum. You take any kind of critique and immediately go on the defensive, reposting the same crap over and over. Disappointing.

On another post:
That is not competing against other computer makes, that is just doing business. You do not understand what we are talking about. . . and deliberately obfuscating the issues. What you just described is what we were saying.

YOU are the one trying to obfuscate here. How do you possibly not define "doing business" as "competing against"? Apple isn't in a market in which there is nothing similar, they are actually in a market where they sell the same product as a multitude of other manufacturers. Just because Apple sells the whole pie, while Microsoft depends on Lenovo/Dell/etc to sell the crust for their own filling, doesn't mean Apple isn't selling the same pies as everyone else, just with a different recipe.

[Swordmaker]

My insult is based on you completely ignoring the evidence. Or maybe you've never seen any of the Mac vs PC ads, in which case I helpfully posted a link to youtube for you in post 26. The VERY FIRST ad in that compendium is Apple making fun of Microsoft, and trying to claim, and I quote, "[Macs] are better at a lot of stuff, like pictures, music, movies.." You argue Apple isn't going against anyone, yet their entire mac v pc ad lineup is Apple denigrating Windows, suggesting current PC users switch to a Mac because it's better. Find a new argument, quit repeating yourself. Maybe read and actually respond to our arguments instead of repeating the same talking points. Intelligent debate. I know it's something rare for any Apple (or anti-Apple!) fanboi. Just like the Glock idiots, or the Catholic bashers.

AGAIN YOU START WITH INSULTS.

I have not ignored any evidence. It is you anti-Apple hecklers who are ignoring the evidence right in front of your faces. I told you exactly what Apple was doing but you choose to ignore it. I am not going to respond to your screed but I am going to say this one more time. Apple is NOT marketing against Microsoft or any particular of the one or even a group of Windows computer manufacturers. Apple was marketing about USER EXPERIENCE. . . and it was against the whole USER EXPERIENCE of the combined PC ecosystem. . . the whole non-working together widget. Apple was offering a system that worked. They were offering the users an alternative to the pain of the PC computer, the whole thing, that people were VERY FAMILIAR WITH, not an OS, not a machine, not the software, the whole bleeping thing. . . with all the cruft that went along with it.

The rest of your sophomoric screed is merely an attempt to make me look ignorant of things I have posted on FR about for over 10 years. You cannot do that, so give it a rest. YOU are the Apple-hater and you are not going to re-define that. TROLL!

You are helping make the argument of the article quite nicely. Thank you.

[tacticalogic]

You do not understand what we are talking about. . . and deliberately obfuscating the issues. What you just described is what we were saying.

If I'm the one deliberately obfuscating, why is it not just me but "most people" that don't understand what you're saying?

[amigatec]

I see you forgot to address the other items I mentioned in my post.

Let me see, remember “DOS isn't done, until Lotus won't run”, or “Choke off Netscapes airsupply”, or the famous AARD code in Windows 3.1? MS has NEVER liked competition, they have gone out of the way to be non-competitive.
And don't forget MS invented vaporware.

Samsung has been following Apple for many years, Swordmaker has posted all the evidence about Samsung trying to copy everything about the iPhone. Apple sued and won.

Like I have said before Apple isn't trying to compete with any one, they are simply building a better product and letting the market decide.

[tacticalogic]

I see you forgot to address the other items I mentioned in my post.

I didn't "forget", I just didn't let you change the subject.

[amigatec]

But THIS IS the subject.

MS and Samsung are trying to compete, Apple IS NOT!!

[tacticalogic]

MS and Samsung are trying to compete, Apple IS NOT!!

By your account they're not. But also by your own account just about everyone else doesn't see it that way.