Posted on 02/26/2015 8:21:21 AM PST by pinochet
Like many Freepers, I was raised in a Christian denomination that did not teach the Prosperity Gospel (PG). In the last few years, I have tried to make sense of the prosperity teachings, and it is possible that I may not fully understand them. But I will explain the PG teachings as best as I am able to understand them.
The Prosperity Gospel teaches that rich people are rich, because they engage in the behavior that God approves of, and this means that rich people are blessed by God. But poor people are poor, because they engage in behavior that God disapproves of, and are therefore punished by God with poverty.
The prosperity Gospel preachers reject the Catholic tradition, where vows of poverty are seen as a measure of strong faith. Therefore, St. Francis of Asisi, whom Catholics consider to be the best Catholic who ever lived, and who gave all his wealth to the poor, is seen as the biggest sucker in human history. Is that assessment of the Prosperity Gospel accurate?
Interesting. Never heard this before. Is there some sources or references on this? thx
Mind you ... from what I see in the Bible, the Prosperity Gospel is all wrong. I totally reject it as being totally against what the Bible says.
I only present what I see and understand of their position. I do believe in getting their position correct, in portraying it ... but that doesn’t mean that I think they are correct. They’re not correct!
BUT, what makes it difficult in talking to these people ... is that they are truly Christians, at least the ones I’ve run into. I’ve had a lot of discussions with them ... and although I like the “people” I’ve talked to ... I ABSOLUTELY HATE the Prosperity Gospel.
you dont quite have it right... i will guess your not much of a bible reader... the parable of the talents points out that god prefers you do whats right and often doing whats right brings you prosperity... it does not mean that your rich to be prosperous... and it DOES mean that the more you can handle the more god gives you and the more your tested. so a person who does well in the right way, will be blessed, but the reward comes with more responsiblity... its not as you say, get rich, go to heaven... how you get rich matters, wht you do after you get it matters, and so on.
duh.
So your point as you have posted it relies in its entirety on the notion that there were no needles before steel needles.
Deconstructing the argument, there is nothing left if wood, bone, bronze, silver, or copper needles were in use in ancient times.
I submit that the thesis is lacking in depth and internal consistency.
Here is what the poster said ... “But I will explain the PG teachings as best as I am able to understand them.”
Then, this is what you said ... “You don’t quite have it right ...”
— — —
The PROBLEM here, is that you are NOT explaining what they think, which is what the poster is talking about.
You said, “Make a lot of money, and you become perfect in God’s eyes, right?”
I think you’ve got that characterized wrong, according to how these people see it. You portray it as the money first, and then salvation. And thus salvation is the “result”.
HOWEVER ... they see it the other way around, FIRST is salvation by faith in Christ, then the “confirmation” of that is that the money comes “as a result” because God wants all his children (i.e., those who are saved) to have all the deserved blessings they should have, as Christians. If a Christian doesn’t have those blessings, it’s because they don’t understand that “God wants them to have it!”
If that is what comes to your mind regarding the question I suspect you do not understand the biblical message.
Many Christians have adopted the false notion that Jesus was poor; Jesus was not poor nor was he homeless when he was born.
The New Testament Covenant promises prosperity when one accepts Jesus as their savior. Prosperity is necessary to have the ability to help others in need of help.
I'm sure it does, just like liberals use of class warfare appeals to the poor.
The problem is that it simply is Biblical. I wonder how the 1st century church would react to today's prosperity gospel? What were they doing wrong that they suffered economically, personally, and even physically unto death for following Christ?
Big money is rarely made accidentally, and most rich people while clean gentle and polite on the surface, make thousands of bad little, and big decisions, that apply to their goal of obtaining the golden ring.
We see it everyday, it is common for people to separate what they do for money, from their considerations of morality.
All those corruptions that we run into in our society, from cable TV to Banks, and contractors, mayors and lawyers and landlords, well they might all be wonderful people off the clock, but when it comes to money, even the nice church lady answering the phone for the cable company for $8.00 and hour, will do or say almost anything her bosses tell her to say and do, and her bosses are much worse as are all the people who design the business plans, and design the corruption built into the business models and that influence the politics and legislation that shape their industries.
It is a rare person that gets rich accidentally, for most people it takes almost total concentration and devotion and a willingness to do almost anything, as long as it is “business”.
We don’t know what the financial situation of Jesus was when he was born, but he obviously was not rich.
Abraham was extremely rich and yet he is in heaven. It’s not the money that is the problem, but the love of money.
is = isn’t
In Jerusalem, they has 10 city gates and they were large, and they were closed at night. There were some that had a narrow entry door, that could be opened at night for people to be let in. They also referred to these as the eye of the needle. Just large enough to squeeze a camel through.
Was really a myth concerning the popes back in the day.
The thought is that God blesses those who please him and that extends to material blessings. I don’t have a problem with that fundamental idea and you can see it in the world surrounding us. However, every person in poverty is not that way because God has not blessed them, just as every person who is materially well off has been blessed by God. Formalizing this into some sort of “Prosperity Gospel” is entirely too worldly and devolves into justification for acquisition of material things for their own sakes, so it’s wrong, even if underpinned by a fundamental truism.
So your point as you have posted it relies in its entirety on the notion that there were no needles before steel needles.
I appoligize for leaving that impression. I am familiar with the wood, bone, bronze, silver, and copper needles that were in use in ancient times. If you examine these needles very few of them had a closed eye like modern needles. They all have very large eyes, compared to a modern steel needle.
I am still convinced the "the eye of a needle" was a figure of speech in biblical times, where it was possible for a camel to pass through the narrowing, but difficult.
This interpretation is also much easier to reconcile with the parable of the talents than an interpretation where it is difficult in the extreme to pass through the eye of a needle.
Remember, in the parable of the talents, increasing one's wealth by investing and trading was portrayed as a virtue, not as a bar to entering heaven.
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