Wonderful people abound; but according to Christ; that is not good enough.

John 3:18

You were there both times.

Like I said, "What did I have for breakfast today?"

My faith was instantly set upon

By EVERYONE?

I wish you a safe and wonderful weekend.

Elsie, On Oct. 11 of last year, Laotzu wrote:

"Baptists have quite a violent history. There’s lots written about it out there. Are we a cult too? Should I seek God's forgiveness, and your approval?
Post #13

Laotzu wrote:...

Impressive research involved. My compliments. Only a timely, and thorough search through reams of postings could have found that.

I confess that I cannot place that quote.

Would you be so kind as to provide the link?

I am so embarrassed. You did provide a link. Thank you.

+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

It is true. I am out of the closet, I am not going back, and I don't care who knows it.

I am......a Baptist!!!!(dunt, dunt, duhhhh!!)

Impressive research involved. My compliments. Only a timely, and thorough search through reams of postings could have found that.

Thorough? No. I recalled that you had mentioned some denom...recalled a few words I had mentioned when I responded to that last Fall...plugged those words along with a few qualifiers in a Google search...and up it came.

Thorough? No.

There is no complimenting some people.

I can see now that it was no trouble at all.

I was worried by your absence, and was concerned about you. You seem in fine venom though, and that is always good news. Welcome back, and bless your heart.

I really must go for now. I hope to be back soon. I know that you will pray for my safe return, because that is just the kind of Christian you are.

Me; too!

And you were jumped on?

it appears to me the Christ of LDS is different from the Christ of the Bible. do you think that is a topic worthy of respectful discussion? (VilaLuz)

(To which Laotzu responded in post #17): Oh, aye. I do.

So the question before us here is: Do Mormons worship another Christ than the one of the Bible, as properly raised by VilaLuz. After all, the apostle Paul so indicated in the Scriptures that indeed -- "another Jesus" can be embraced (2 Cor. 11:3-4). After all, we can't just "Gumby-style" twist Jesus into whomever we want Him to be -- and then say anything ascribed to Him is actually Him!

So I developed this "Initial" chart to show that on this question, we are actually in agreement with certain Mormon leaders -- and in disagreement with others (like Laotzu and many grassroots Mormons) that we all worship the same Jesus!

CHART I: WHERE WE 'AGREE' WITH MORMON LEADERS:

Lds speak about, believe, acknowledge, worship, and trust a 'different' Christ than most Christians do

Lds Source	Lds Leaders Say: 'Different Christ'	Bible indicates: 'Different Christ'
Lds 'prophet' Gordon B. Hinckley:	Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley: “There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998) Hinckley again: As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. ("We Look to Christ", from April 2002 General Conference.)	"The FACT IS, we do NOT depend on the Bible or on traditional biblical interpretations for our theology." ^{(BYU professor Robert L. Millet, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, 6:1, p. 198). Did you notice the "WE" of Millet's statement? -- and that there wasn't a storm or even a peep of protest from either Mormon leaders or Mormon grassroots objecting to this Millet statement...and I would guestimate that lack of protest encompasses ALL FReeper Mormons!} In stark contrast, the traditional Christ within Christianity is... ...uniquely THE ONLY begotten Son from eternity past, not one of millions of God's pre-existent "sons"; He is uniquely Savior, not one of millions of saviors per Mormondom; He is uniquely Creator and divine and self-existent from eternity past, not one of MILLIONS of men who are somehow likewise "self-existent" from eternity past; His blood is uniquely powerful beyond men's commandment-keeping -- lest the promise Jesus made to the thief on the cross become a false prophecy; His blood is potent enough to cover ALL sins, unlike the Mormon Jesus who leaves men to "make up" for anemic blood via their own "blood atonement." He absorbed God's wrath vs. the Book of Mormon violent Jesus who took out His wrath upon thousands of residents in alleged 16 Book of Mormon cities! The violent Mormon Jesus sunk, entombed, and otherwise destroyed perhaps up to 90,000 upon His death on the Mormon cross! The Bible knows no such horrific crucifixion aftermath fairy tales...
Lds official publication Ensign; BYU Press; Lds curricula - Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide	“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26; "True and saving worship is found ONLY among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead, and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency." ^{("Our Relationship with the Lord," in Fireside and Devotional Speeches, 1981-82 (Provo: BYU Press, 1982), p. 97 -- this quote republished in official Lds curricula publication in 1983, 1986, Come unto Christ: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984/1988, p. 45)}	(See comparison charts to follow); Christians worship a Christ who can receive direct prayer (Acts 7:59; Mormons even militate vs. their own "scripture" on this -- see 3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26)
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie	"And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269).	The Christ of Christianity is 'mythical' per an Lds "apostle"? And Mormons imagine that they haven't somehow wielded a direct attack upon Christians worldwide? May I remind Mormons that Lds continued to publish McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" book? (The Mormon church got ahold of the direct copyright, acquiring it from Bookcraft, and then publishing it under its direct ownership umbrella -- Deseret Book Publishing -- in 1993) McConkie's book was published/republished under 7, count 'em 7, Mormon "prophets" (McKay, Lee, Kimball, Benson, Hunter, Hinckley, Monson). Only McKay conveyed strongly that alterations needs to be forthcoming after the initial edition, and revisions were made...but not enough to keep from embarrassing the Mormon faithful ever since!

Summary bottom-line:
Mormon official publications say they worship a different Christ...
...the Mormon "prophet" said they speak about, believe and acknowledge a different Christ...
...Most Christians say they worship, speak of and trust another Jesus...
...So. We would seem to be on the same page...so why the few stragglers who are out of harmony???

Did you know that the Mormon Christ is also described in the Book of Mormon? Did you know that in the Book of Mormon Christ kills people? I will re-paste my link below. Please understand that my dispute is with a newcomer to Christianity being told that Christ killed people. You may be OK with that, but I think that such is a false teaching and should be called out. To me that is quite different than pointing out the differences between a Baptist and a Methodist. 3 Nephi 9:15 on the LDS site begins with “Chapter 9 - In the darkness, the voice of Christ proclaims the destruction of many people and cities for their wickedness” https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/9.15?lang=eng (FreedomLover)

And Laotzu's response to this?

(Like MANY posts to him/her (in many threads), no specific response.)

Allow me here, then, to post another charts adding clarity. For I deal with documenting the above comment by FreedomLover in #10 of this chart:

DOCUMENTATION CHART re: 'Another Jesus'

Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' jesus from Jesus of Bible	Mormon 'Jesus'	Jesus of Bible
1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past?	NO: Lds say ALL "intelligences" -- including Jesus -- existed (D&C 93:29) before becoming a "spirit" child born to a divine goddess on a planet near Kolob; yet Joseph Smith could not even keep his story straight here, giving a "revelation" in 1831 that "from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I AM, even Jesus Christ" (D&C 39:1) + Alma 13:9 talks about the "only begotten without beginning of days" I openly dare LDS to forthrightly exegete Doctrine & Covenants 39:1, which says: Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I AM, even Jesus Christ.... What does "from all eternity to all eternity" mean? "The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic...Intelligence is eternal & exists upon a self-existent principle...The first principles of man are self-existent with God." Smith, p. 210 [TofPresidents of the Church]	YES: Bible: Before Abraham was, "I AM" (John 8:58) ["I AM" is a divine Name first introduced in Exodus 3:14 and means, "The Self-Existing One"...THE Jesus is self-existent and didn't need a "mom god" on a planet near Kolob to "progress" in His life. Mormons flat-out deny the teaching found in John 1:1, 18 and Micah 5:2, because they claim Jesus was part of a past creation process – (obviously if Jesus’ Mormon “father” was once a man, then Jesus was at some point “less” in stature at that “time”) * "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [Jesus]" (Jn. 1:1,18). * ”But thou, Bethlehem Ephrata, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2)
2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, or to Christ as pre-eminent heir and creator of all things?	The Firstborn "spirit" of many born spirits on a planet near Kolob; the 'Mormon Jesus' at his "spirit birth" was only "more special" at his "spirit birth" than you or me only because He was the "firstborn"	In Hebrew culture, the firstborn = "heir"...Jesus was not the "first" to be born...though Paul also adds in Col. 1:18 Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" -- the first to rise from the dead. Colossians 1:15-16 explains this Jesus as "heir" -- "firstborn" -- as this Greek word meant pre-eminent -- or has first right over all creation...Psalm 80:27 demonstrates this idea of priority of position as Col. 1:16 says Jesus is creator of all, all things were created for Jesus (cf. Hebrews 3:4)
3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')?	YES "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" ^{(Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269 implying that "Christendom" postulates a "mythical Christ" because we say Jesus is "uncreated" -- and part of a "triple unity" with the Father and Holy Spirit)}.	NO: 16 For by him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL things were created by him, and for him: (Col. 1:16)
4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past?	NO: "Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." ^{(Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68; cf. Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, p. 153)} * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." ^{(Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95)}	YES: "He made Him WHO KNEW NO SIN* to be sin" (2 Cor. 5:21); Christ "did no sin"* (1 Pet. 2:22)
5. Was Jesus always divine from eternity past?	NO: * "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience* to all the Gospel truths and universal laws."* (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323)	YES: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane, John 17:5); ...unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever (Heb. 1:8)
6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem?	NO: "...he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem..." (Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon)	YES: Actual Jesus born IN Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1) not "at Jerusalem" Was Jesus born "at Jerusalem"?
7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?"	YES: The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” ^{(Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)} “Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING...” ^{(McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238} where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”) and * ^{McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said}: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." ^{[cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72}]	NO: I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE* Savior of the world.* (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).
8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many?	YES: The "Jesus" of Brigham Young is one redeemer-savior among who knows how many? "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?... Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." ^{(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870); cf. how Mormons name themselves as "saviors" -- numerous citations: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others?}	NO: "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE* Savior of the world."* (1 John 4:14); "They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is THE Savior of the world.” (John 4:42)
9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane?	YES: * "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood more so than on the cross." ^{(BYU Professor Robert J. Matthews, A Bible! ABible! p. 282)} * "It was there [Gethsemane] that the Savior paid the price for all the sorrows, sins and transgressions of every human being who ever lives or ever will live." ^{(Seventy -- Second Quorum -- Wolfgang H. Paul, "Gratitude for the Atonement," Ensign, June 2007, p. 15)}	NO: This Jesus didn't atone for sins by sweating blood in the garden; He did it on Calvary as the Bible proclaims in Col. 1:20: "And, having made peace through the blood of the cross..."
10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death?	YES: Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith talked about "...a period of darkness at the death of Christ... "greater period of darkness and terrible punishment came upon the people in the Western Hemisphere because of their extreme wickedness..." ^{(Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 3, p. 45, Deseret Book Co., 1960)} Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to bring down destruction (3 Nephi 9:12) and ensure that people would "howl" in that destruction (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to ensure people would be in "continual...mourning" (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5); the Book of Mormon jesus came to yield complete darkness for three days (3 Nephi 8:23) NOTE: Please read 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12 for entire picture of overwhelming destruction caused by the Mormon 'Jesus': Cities were supposedly all either sunk by the Mormon jesus, or horrifically burned to death, plus for added emphasis, ”many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land...” (3 Nephi 9:12)...All told, upon the Mormon jesus' death, he supposedly unleashes punishment. He levels 16 cities, killing 70,000-->90,000 people! [Note: Nothing of the kind is stated in the Bible!] Yes, there was judgment on the cross! Yes, it was terrible! But the real Jesus absorbed all of that judgment and terror -- our very sins -- there on the cross! The sad result is that too many LDS & RLDS alike ONLY see the Book of Mormon Easter judgment upon people! The week that followed the Book of Mormon jesus’ resurrection, was a terrible 4 days or so! No wonder a tremendous aversion to the cross exists among Mormons due to Joseph Smith's version of post crucifixion events!	NO: The Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10), to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10), and to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5)
11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature?	NO: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church: From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church... ^{Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN) The Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasizes the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."] The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."}	YES, BOTH: "...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7) Other Biblical verses rejected: 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:24; Heb. 1:3
12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels?	YES: Although the Book of Mormon makes some solid statements about Christ's powerful atoning blood (see, for example Mosiah 3:18), Mormon leaders wind up accusing Jesus of having rather anemic blood; yes, Lds "scriptures" highlight His blood as one which cleanses from unrighteousness (Alma 7:14, Book of Mormon; D&C 76:41, Doctrines & Covenants; Moses 6:59, Pearl of Great Price) -- unfortunately such ultimate cleansing is rooted solely on ability to keep commandments: "That by keeping the commandments, they MIGHT* be washed and cleansed from all their sins."* (D&C 76:52). Other related statements to diluting cleansing power of Christ's blood: * "Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." ^{(Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135-136)} * "Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93). So much for the power of Christ's blood to cover sins per Mormonism! * "Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however, is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation. Many go so far, for instance, as to pretend, at least, to believe that if we confess Christ with our lips and avow that we accept him as our personal Savior, we are thereby saved. His blood, without other act than mere belief, they say, makes us clean." (Lds Tract titled, "What the Mormons Think of Christ, p. 31) * "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants" (Brigham Young, March 16, 1856, Journal of Discourses, 3:247)	NO: "...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7); "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood" (Rev. 1:5); "... with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation."(Rev. 5:9); "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev. 7:14); "And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood." (Heb. 13:12); "Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus..." (Heb. 10:19); "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace" (Eph. 1:7); Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:9)
13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be?	NO: Due to unique Lds doctrine that (a) we were all eternal; (b) we were all spirit babies just like Jesus; (c) their teaching that Jesus was a "saved being" -- in need of "salvation"; (d) all Mormons become "saviors" via baptizing dead people; (e) all temple Mormons become gods. (f) and SOME Lds leaders' teachings that Jesus is not deserving of worship. The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)	YES: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of THE ONLY begotten Son* of God. (John 3:18) Jesus is either "the ONLY begotten Son" from eternity -- not one of MANY begotten spirit sons in some pre-existence -- or He is not* unique; and if Lds say "begotten" references such new "condition" Jesus acquired upon conception in Mary's womb, how is it that Jesus suddenly became a Son and the Father suddenly became a Father -- unless it's true that Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie & Lds "prophet" Brigham Young taught that the paternity was a literal one -- that the Father came down and had sex with Mary!!!
14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly?	NO: Yet... “And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and God…when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him…And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him…And Jesus said unto them: Pray on; nevertheless they did not cease to pray.” (3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26, Book of Mormon)	YES Stephen, Acts prayed directly to Jesus! While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." (Acts 7:59)

I said
“my dispute is with a newcomer to Christianity being told that Christ killed people”

You said
“Why hide from a newcomer that God cursed, and killed a great many Egyptians?
Why a cover up on Sodom & Gomorrah? Why deny the great flood?”

I don’t hide the latter, because they are in the Old Testament of the Bible.
I see a difference between the Old and New testaments. That is why I see a problem with the concept of Jesus killing people as set forth in the Book of Mormon. I don’t think it happened. Do you?

Excellent comparison charts... Thanks for sharing.

I believe you respect people’s religious beliefs, and I do, too. If someone wants to be LDS, Muslim, buddhist, etc. I respect that. What upsets me is a cult calling itself Christian when it isn’t, like Westboro baptist church or the Roy Masters group. I have nothing against people who choose to follow Joseph Smith, I just don’t buy their claim they’re Christian. Joseph Smith wrote addendums to the Bible which contradict The Word. That’s what really bothers me.

That is why I see a problem with the concept of Jesus killing people as set forth in the Book of Mormon. I don’t think it happened. Do you?

Lotsa peole get killed.

What's the big deal???

MORMON

Chapter 6

The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.

1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.

2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.

3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired.

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.

6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.

16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:

17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!

18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.

19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!

20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.

Mormon 8:2
And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.

Lotsa peole get killed.

What's the big deal???

Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle...

HMMMmmm...

The BIGGEST battle EVER recorded; and not ONE even teeny bit of evidence of it can be found!!

The Book of Ether

Chapter 15

Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.

1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the ^awords which Ether had spoken unto him.

2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly ^atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.

3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul ^amourned and refused to be ^bcomforted.

4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.

5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.

6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.

7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.

8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.

9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.

10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.

11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ^ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.

13 And it came to pass that Ether did ^abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.

14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.

15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with ^aweapons of war, having shields, and ^bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.

16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a ^alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.

17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.

18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.

19 But behold, the ^aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and ^bSatan had full power over the ^chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.

20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.

21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.

22 And when the night came they were ^adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.

23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.

24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.

25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.

26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.

27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.

28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.

29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had ^aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.

30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.

31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and ^afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

32 And it came to pass that ^aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.

33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he ^afinished his ^brecord; (and the ^chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.

34 Now the last words which are written by ^aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am ^bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15

I have nothing against people who choose to follow Joseph Smith, I just don’t buy their claim they’re Christian.

I get upset at those who state that NO religion should be looked into and compared to Christianity!