That is part of the problem, and one I wish could get fixed.
The problem isn’t parents, teachers or kids. It is government, forced monopoly and unions. Privatize all schools. You won’t find salaries going up, but you will find most teachers will be happier.
Totally on board with that idea. Allow education to run on the business model, so successful schools become in demand and unsuccessful schools get shuttered, successful teachers get rewarded appropriately, and failures get kicked to the curb.
Of course, then it enters the same arena as health care -- can the government require people to purchase a service?
The only way it could work would be to take government off the hook for people's failure to ensure their children are educated. Since for certain, if government didn't take the money for education in taxes and only mandated that people invest in kids' education, then the kids would come in second place to that new car, in many people's priorities.
As I pointed out in another post -- I know people who teach, not because of the pay, since they are financially comfortable otherwise, but out of choosing to serve their community where they see a need. Jealous of mechanics? I'd have to ask them, but I don't think they are. In a couple of dozen years the car will have been recycled, while the kids my friends teach will be parents themselves.
Back to the BLS -- the median annualized wage for college graduates is $57,200, compared to the $49k-$51K overall you cite for teachers (man, I know a lot of people who'd like to know where the $49k teachers' salaries are -- they sure aren't around here. Most of the teachers I know are taking home $40k/year, which comes out to $22/hour just for school hours, but more like $19-$20/hour for time actually spent.
Re the salaries of mechs vs. teachers -- when it becomes necessary for mechs to get a college education, your car repairs will get a lot pricier. And if you can find a garage that only charges you for the mech's time -- good luck.
Sorry to throw context into the discussion -- I know it can be inconvenient to compare apples to apples, but one gets a clearer picture that way.
By way of clearer picture, since you want to cite BLS, according to them, a nurse's annual salary was $62k in 2008. That comes out to $31/hour. But you say your wife only makes $27? Maybe the numbers aren't the be-all, end-all you want them to be. Especially when comparing numbers from different sources (BLS vs AFT). My apologies for injecting numbers into a discussion about teachers. Very few teachers understand them.
No apologies necessary. I was happy to help you understand them in context. And most of the teacher's I know have learned to overlook children's little insults.
http://www.seethroughny.net
You can see the actually salaries of individual teachers by last name. I went in and just put in some common last names, Jones, Brown, Anderson, etc and pulled up salaries in the 6 figures quite often.
NY is a big state with a lot of teachers, get a couple of more states like it and the average numbers start skewing up and up.
And am I jealous of mechanics? Oh no, my BIL is one and I wouldn't do his job for twice my pay - of course, he wouldn't do mine either, so everything works out in the long run...
Many on this thread have complained about how mechanics make more than teachers. I have pointed out they do not.
“The only way it could work would be to take government off the hook for people’s failure to ensure their children are educated.”
You could have the government provide a voucher good for X dollars each year. That would not be requiring parents to pay, but it would allow complete freedom in what school they pay to do the job.
Another fairly simple solution would be to allow teachers to punish children, if they attend. It is the lack of discipline that prevents education, not the lack of money.
“As I pointed out in another post — I know people who teach, not because of the pay, since they are financially comfortable otherwise, but out of choosing to serve their community where they see a need. Jealous of mechanics? I’d have to ask them, but I don’t think they are.”
You are the one complaining about money. You are the one saying we need to raise teachers salaries. In post 5 YOU wrote:
“I asked a guy once; What does it say about priorities when people are willing to pay a mechanic two to three times per hour to work on a car, what they are willing to pay a teacher to teach a classroom full of children?”
In post 20 you wrote:
“Spend money on your kid’s education — it takes longer and is something you have to put some effort of your own into. “
Post 54:
“In most areas, teachers who have any decent standard of living are not the primary income for their family. If it’s so lucrative and so easy — why aren’t you doing it? “
Post 56:
“In fact, I see mechs here better off than teachers, unless the teacher has a spouse with a good job.”
I’m glad to see you’ve overcome your jealousy of mechanics, particularly since mechanics work longer hours and get paid less.
“Back to the BLS — the median annualized wage for college graduates is $57,200, compared to the $49k-$51K overall you cite for teachers (man, I know a lot of people who’d like to know where the $49k teachers’ salaries are — they sure aren’t around here.”
Then do some research. I provided a county by county breakdown for the state of Virginia. Here is Arizona:
“Starting Salary: $30,404 / Average Salary: $44,672”
http://teacherportal.com/salary/Arizona-teacher-salary
Yes, Arizona is below the national average. Tucson is the closest city to me, and where my sister teaches. The average salary is $44,000...”Average Teacher salaries for job postings in Tucson, AZ are 23% lower than average Teacher salaries for job postings nationwide.”
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Teacher-l-Tucson,-AZ.html
And yes, that explains why my wife makes less than the national average of nurses - she works in Tucson. $44,000/1500 = $29/hour. Plus benefits. My wife gets no benefits, and for this year gets paid more because of that. She makes just under $27 hour.
“By way of clearer picture, since you want to cite BLS, according to them, a nurse’s annual salary was $62k in 2008. That comes out to $31/hour. But you say your wife only makes $27? Maybe the numbers aren’t the be-all, end-all you want them to be. Especially when comparing numbers from different sources (BLS vs AFT).”
You once again show you do not understand economics and numbers. I never claimed all teachers everywhere make $49K. That is a national average. However, I have claimed they are well paid for what they do. My wife will have her BSN in a couple of months. That will raise her pay to $28/hour. And yes, she works in a field where mistakes can kill the patient. One mistake can end your career. It can end the patient, too!
You - not other posters, but YOU - have complained on this thread at length about how little teachers make, and that salaries need to be raised. Glad to see you now admit the money isn’t the issue.
“Most of the teachers I know are taking home $40k/year, which comes out to $22/hour just for school hours, but more like $19-$20/hour for time actually spent.”
BLS statistics are for pay, not take home pay. Mechanics take home less than their hourly earnings. Actual time spent in most jobs runs higher than paid hours. My wife is paying for her BSN, in time and money. She will pay out of pocket and take classes as long as she is a nurse. You have to if you are going to be current. But she doesn’t work 9 months out of the year. Someone with 3 months time off out of 12 simply is not working as hard as someone who works 12 months out of 12.