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To: Swordmaker
As evidence, the chain of custody down through the centuries, makes the "shroud" inadmissible. "Experts", are wrong just as many times as they are right. The fact that the shroud was found in the Middle Ages during the period of the Hundred Years War, tends to suggest that it is a manufactured artifact. A common occurrence since the death of Christ. Many "Christian Relics" were fabricated and many monasteries and aristocrats charged the faithful money to gaze or touch these fakes.

It amazes me that people want or need to believe in the authenticity of such an item. Will it make all Christians, more Christian if it is, indeed, the shroud that Christ's body was wrapped after his crucifixion? It doesn't matter to me. Faith is the belief in that which is unseen, unproven. The Shroud of Turin reminds me of Dumbo the Elephant's magic feather. The feather wasn't really magic, Dumbo had a real talent. Anybody wanna buy a "Magic Feather"?

8 posted on 02/08/2005 10:25:50 AM PST by elbucko (Feral Republican)
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To: elbucko

You need to take it up with the LORD. It is he that allowed the shroud to remain for good reasons, I am sure.


31 posted on 02/10/2005 7:49:27 PM PST by Bellflower (A new day is Coming!)
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To: elbucko
As evidence, the chain of custody down through the centuries, makes the "shroud" inadmissible.

I wasn't aware that someone was attempting to use the authenticity (or not) of the Shroud in a criminal case . . . which is the only case in which your statement would apply.

A common occurrence since the death of Christ. Many "Christian Relics" were fabricated and many monasteries and aristocrats charged the faithful money to gaze or touch these fakes.

The existence of counterfeits does not therefore prove that all things are counterfeit.

Will it make all Christians, more Christian if it is, indeed, the shroud that Christ's body was wrapped after his crucifixion?

Nope. But it will be yet another proof that one can add to their apologetic, if indeed it proves to be true.

Faith is the belief in that which is unseen, unproven.

It annoys me enough when nonbelievers use that passe definition of faith, let alone a professing Christian who should know better. Peter and the other Apostles knew for a fact whether or not Jesus had risen from the dead. They saw Him, touched Him, and even ate with Him. Yet they still had to have faith. Why?

Because faith is not the intellectual belief in something contrary to the facts or despite a lack of facts. It is choosing to trust God and His provision for our sin, choosing to trust His promises even when their fulfillment seems a distant and unlikely thing, choosing to trust Him to know what He's doing when He tells us to do something and obey Him.

It has not shown to poses any supernatural power.

Historical artifacts are only of interest to you if they have some magical power that you can exploit?

The shroud may actually be the burial cloth of Christ, but its existence, like the Holy Grail and pieces of the True Cross or Peter's Bones is only memorabilia, not faith.

Which is all the interest I see anyone here taking in it, so who exactly are you trying to correct?

61 posted on 02/15/2005 6:13:07 PM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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To: elbucko
The fact that the shroud was found in the Middle Ages during the period of the Hundred Years War, tends to suggest that it is a manufactured artifact. A common occurrence since the death of Christ. Many "Christian Relics" were fabricated and many monasteries and aristocrats charged the faithful money to gaze or touch these fakes.

And the quality of many of those fake "Christian Relics" is so bad as to be laughable. If the shroud were just another fake Medieval forgery, the flaws should be so obvious that we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We're talking about people who were willing to believe that animal bones were the bones of saints and so forth. Why make a shroud that looks better as a photographic negative, which has details that withstand modern medical scrutiny, and which don't exactly match the common interpretation of the Gospel accounts? Take a good look at Medieval paintings of Biblical scenes and in many, you'll notice the people dressed in Medieval garb. We're not talking about people with a modern sense of science, history, or investigation.

70 posted on 02/16/2005 8:38:39 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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