Posted on 05/04/2022 8:31:18 PM PDT by bitt
Special Counsel Durham Update -
The court order granting immunity to Fusion GPS's Laura Seago has been unsealed.
And here is the newly unsealed motion to compel Seago's testimony [in the Sussmann case], filed by Durham back in April 2022.
Full doc: https://www.scribd.com/document/572850321/72-Motion-to-Compel-Seago-Testimony
Treason does not require a KINETIC war, it requires an Oath of Allegiance and an attempt to overthrow the United States.
Attempted overthrow by coup d’etat of a US President constitutes attempted overthrow of the US.
The manufacture of false evidence designed for a coup d’etat scheme, represents a war against the US.
For example, if it had been proven that JFK had been assassinated by agents of Fidel Castro, such assassination would be considered an ACT of War. If any such agents had been US insiders who had taken an Oath of Allegiance, such insiders could be charged with treason.
18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Big bttt
They were happy to play along. Seems Durham's job is to protect the fbi / doj from blowback.
The Clinton campaign used a law firm to run a smear job on a political opponent and managed to involve US intelligence and law enforcement to spy on Trump with the deliberate attempt to block anyone from finding out about it because it would theoretically be protected by attorney-client privilege.
These people are diabolical.
However, the discovery of a crime committed by Sussman as an officer of that firm should remove any such protections.
And so?
How does it work when Hillary’s lawyer Sussman tells federal prosecutors that he didn’t represent Hillary when he commissioned the Trump dossier, and then tells the judge that stacks of his communications with Hillary are inadmissible because of attorney-client privilege?
And then the question for Durham is: Should Durham use this leverage to turn Sussman and go after Hillary and the rest of her staff?
She surrounded herself with “lawyers” when she was Senator and later SOS and claimed every conversation and communication was “privileged” therefore beyond the reach of discovery and not subject to subpoena. All they had to do is past a bar exam somewhere.
They are claiming attorney-client privilege, all while not acting as an attorney, merely as advisor.
The privilege against self incrimination goes to all crimes. In your hypothetical, all three are under the shadow of criminal conspiracy, so all three have a basis to assert the privilege to not testify.
There aren’t many treason cases in the US, I’d say 20, but certainly fewer than 50. Tokyo Rose was convicted and pardoned. I think hers is the most recent case.
Lots of espionage cases.
Right. We have essentially already been conquered and are unlikely to see treason cases now except for actual patriots. Unfortunately.
Wake me when someone of any significance is actually prosecuted and convicted of something.
Because HRC, as US Senator of NY, took an Oath of Allegiance to the United States and its Constitution, she is subject to charges ot TREASON for attempting to overthrow a duly elected President.
TREASON carries the death penalty.
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does that oath of allegiance to the USA constitution apply to her installation as SOS?
is that oath permanent (like applied to military officers) or does it expire when her term in office expires??
It is permanent and applies to all military, government employees, office holders, all judges, lawyers, all naturalized citizens.
It applies to George Soros.
It doesn’t apply to Michael Moore.
It is permanent, unless citizenship is formally revoked.
See #21.
Ok. Thanx. Got it
The reason: From their historical experience and their knowledge of English and European history they knew that a treason charge could be made by the sovereign power over almost anything that power took a mind to declare treasonous, not just political disagreements.
Even with the high bar the US has abused it a few times. For example - Only five people have ever been executed for treason against the federal government: William Bruce Mumford, who was convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War (Clearly an abusive of the charge!) and the Lincoln Conspirators - David Herold, Lewis Powell, George Atzerodt, and Mary Surratt.
List of people charged with and convicted of treason.
1. Philip Vigol and John Mitchell, convicted of treason and sentenced to hanging; pardoned by George Washington; see Whiskey Rebellion.
2. John Fries, the leader of Fries’ Rebellion, convicted of treason in 1800 along with two accomplices, and pardoned that same year by John Adams.
3. In a case famous at the time, Aaron Burr was acquitted of treason, and then burned in effigy, in 1807. He voluntarily exiled himself to the United Kingdom for 5 years.
4. Governor Thomas Dorr 1844, convicted of treason against the state of Rhode Island; see Dorr Rebellion; released in 1845; civil rights restored in 1851; verdict annulled in 1854.
5. The abolitionist John Brown, convicted in 1859 of treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia, murder, and fomenting a slave insurrection for his part in the Harpers Ferry raid; executed. The first person executed for treason in the country's history.
6. Aaron Dwight Stevens, took part in John Brown's raid and was executed in 1860 for treason against Virginia.
7. William Bruce Mumford, convicted of treason and hanged in 1862 for tearing down a United States flag during the American Civil War.
8. David Herold, Lewis Powell, George Atzerodt, and Mary Surratt - convicted of treason and hanged for conspiring in the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln in 1865. (I am reasonably certain Mrs. Surratt’s charge was treason, the others not-so-sure, but probably were. Anyway they were hung!)
9. Walter Allen was convicted of treason on September 16, 1922 for taking part in the 1921 Miner's March against the coal companies and the U.S. Army at Blair Mountain, West Virginia. He was sentenced to 10 years and fined. During his appeal to the Supreme Court he disappeared while out on bail.
10. United Mineworkers of America leader William Blizzard was acquitted of the charge of treason by the jury on May 25, 1922.
11. Max Stephan, a German-born Detroit tavernkeeper, was convicted of treason on July 2, 1942, after the jury deliberated for only one hour and 23 minutes. In April 1942, Stephan harbored and fed at his tavern a Luftwaffe pilot who escaped from a Canadian POW camp.
12. On August 6, Judge Arthur J. Tuttle sentenced Stephan to death by hanging. He was the first man convicted and sentenced to death on a federal treason charge since the Civil War. His sentence was later commuted by President Franklin D. Roosevelt to life in prison.
13. Hans Max Haupt, Walter Otto Froehling and Otto Richard Wergin were convicted of treason and sentenced to death, and Erna Emma Haupt, Lucille Froehling and Kate Martha Wergin were convicted of treason and sentenced to 25 years in prison on November 24, 1942, in a joint indictment. All six individuals were charged with treason for giving aid and comfort to the executed German saboteur Herbert Hans Haupt. On appeal, these judgments were reversed and remanded to be retried. Hans Max Haupt was convicted again on June 9, 1944. He was sentenced to life in prison. He appealed again, but the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed this judgement. Walter Otto Froehling and Otto Richard Wergin were sentenced to 5 years in prison on July 22, 1944 as accessories to treason. Hans Max Haupt eventually appealed the case up to the Supreme Court, which sustained the verdict against him.
14. Martin James Monti, United States Army Air Forces pilot, convicted of treason for defecting to the Waffen-SS in 1944. He was paroled in 1960.
15. Max Otto Koischwitz, charged with treason for defecting to Nazi Germany during World War II in 1943, died of tuberculosis in 1944.
16. Edward Leo Delaney, charged with treason for defecting to Nazi Germany during World War II in 1943, charges were dropped in 1947.
17. Jane Anderson, American journalist indicted on charges of treason in 1943, defected to Nazi Germany in World War II, charges were dropped in 1947.
18. Frederick Wilhelm Kaltenbach, indicted for defecting to Germany during World War II as a broadcaster in 1943, died in Soviet custody.
19. Douglas Chandler, worker for National Geographic, convicted of treason in 1947 for defecting to Germany during World War II, sentence commuted by president John F. Kennedy.
20. Robert Henry Best, convicted of treason on April 16, 1948 and served a life sentence.
21. Iva Toguri D’Aquino, who is frequently identified by the name “Tokyo Rose”, convicted 1949. Subsequently, pardoned by President Gerald Ford.
22. Mildred Gillars, also known as “Axis Sally”, convicted of treason on March 8, 1949; served 12 years of a 10- to 30-year prison sentence.
23. Herbert John Burgman, convicted of treason in 1949 during WWII for spreading Nazi propaganda; sentenced to 6–20 years in prison.
24. Tomoya Kawakita, sentenced to death for treason in 1952, but eventually released by President John F. Kennedy to be deported to Japan.
Notice the Rosenbergs are absent. They were convicted and executed under the Espionage Act not Constitutional treason!
Note Jihad Johnny was not charged with treason (Probably should have been but wasn't!) while Adam Ghani Gadhan was. He made it easy for DOJ by dying in a drone strike so he never made it to court.
If you look at the list and think about it. We are a pretty forgiving nation. The Confederate leadership wasn't charged with it. Probably because it would have opened a Constitutional can of worms regarding secession!
Important thing to remember if you make a treason charge easy at some point it will be used against you by your (and mine!) political enemies. That's why I view this throwing around of the word “treason” is irresponsible. One could make the word so familiar in use that the bar is lowered and we all end up like William Bruce Mumford or the Blair Mountain miners. Treason was hardly appropriate in those cases! Clearly they were abuses brought by emotion not reason!
I always go with the intent of the Founding Fathers! Far wiser than I or you or anyone else in government since!
Agree re: founding father’s wisdom
From what I read I can’t make a distinction of where these charges of treason were brought & tried.
It reads like civil courts vs military??
So can treason & espionage be brought in civilian court systems??
Both the military subject to the Constitution too!
For example:
The Burr trial was in Federal Court with Chief Justice Marshall presiding.
The Civil War era trials i believe had military for all, the Lincoln Conspirators trial certainly was.
The Blair Mountain Mine War trials Federal Court.
The WWII era trials that didn’t involve military personal like Axis Sally & Tokyo Rose i believe were Federal Court.
Gahanna if he had survived and been caught it would have been in Federal Court.
Why does it matter? There’s nothing magical or more honest about a military court! If you think so, I can name several examples where’s that’s not the case!
My point is treason is a hard charge to make in the US and long may it remain so. In spite of what our emotions might want.
The Founding Fathers were right as always! That shouldn’t surprise a Constitutionalist conservative!
Thanx for adding the color , reily.
Several peep on the forum havr posed the questions I’ve bounced off you today, so I hope others will read your posts
I forgot to mention espionage.
That Federal Court in Alexandria seemed to get all the espionage cases during the almost 40 years I lived in the DC area. It seemed even the ones involving servicemen\women (e.g., Thinking of an AF NRO guy!) but I could be remembering it wrong.
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