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To: little jeremiah

Its amazing how much Russia is being blamed in Catalonia by the #NeverTrump #FakeNewsMedia crowd based on a cursory search of “Catalonia Russia” on Google.

Please provide your source for the allegation that Qatar is behind Catalan independence.

John McCain and Hillary Clinton are friends of the Gulf Arabs and their jihadist agenda in Syria that has been definitely backed by Qatar and fortunately was stopped by Russia, among others.


13 posted on 10/22/2017 9:19:42 AM PDT by Nextrush (Freedom is everybody's business: Remember Pastor Niemoller)
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To: Nextrush

I will a bit later. A lot going on right at the moment.


14 posted on 10/22/2017 10:26:04 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Half the truth is often a great lie. B. Franklin)
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To: Nextrush
I'll see how much of this I can copy and paste, considering I'm not fast or good with html. Best to go read the whole thing. Here is the thread, and the author is a native Spanish speaker, writer, fromer hardcores leftist himself, born in S. America IIRC, currenlty a US resident and also I believe a naturalized US citizen. He is a brilliant and knowledgeable man. The discussion on Calalonia starts at his comment (5, and I will copy as much as I can at the moment. Later I will try to copy the rest.

Saul Montes-Bradley‏ @Debradelai

https://twitter.com/Debradelai/status/913978014131740672

(11) The problem is far more recent than people realize.
As recently as 2006, there was no independence movement to speak of in Catalonia.

(12) There sure were “autonomists;” and not a few crazies.
But in poll after poll, those who advocated the independence of Catalonia...

(13) .. did not top 14%. Imagine that! Almost as many believe in UFO abductions.
http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20161230/412969825085/ceo-historia-proceso-catalunya-independencia.html

(14) In fact, according to the Centre d’estudis d’opinió (CEO), a Catalan government office, 71.6% of Catalans...

(15) ...wanted to remain either an autonomous region or a state WITHIN Spain, and 8.1% wanted to remain a Spanish region.

(16) Think about that: 79.7% of Catalans where in favor of varying degrees of autonomy or lack thereof, but always as a part of Spain.

(17) Even in 2009, when the violent economic crisis that befell Europe affected Spain with singular virulence...

(18) discontent only managed to bring the indepes to a whooping 21.6%. Nearly 80% of Catalans consistently rejected any idea of independence

(19) By 2012, when austerity measures affected Catalonia certainly no more and arguably quite less than the rest of Spain,

(20) the political discourse blaming Madrid for what was certainly not Madrid’s doing, helped indepes increase their base to a whooping 29%.

(21) It was a handy way to distract from the 3rd world level of corruption in the Catalan government. (Vide Pujol, Andorra accounts, etc.)

(22) Apparently, the central government was to blame for the ingrained corruption in the autonomous government, especially among indepes.

(23) Even now, after money flowed like a river since 2012, they can barely crack 40%.

And that is actually divided into ... get this ...

24) no more that 29% for the Catalan people at large raising to 50% amongst the more well-to-do. Sound familiar?

(25) And where does the money flow from?
Try from Qatar to Jaume Roures to Oriol Junqueras, Puigdemont, and Podemos.

https://www.elespanol.com/deportes/futbol/20170926/249726071_0.amp.html

(26) The whole cast of characters was there, including Mohammed al-Kuwari, right hand man of Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, Emir of Qatar

(27) What where they doing? Participating in a secret meeting organized by Oriol Soler in the house of Jaume Roures, the Catalan Soros,

(28) where Iglesias and Oriol Junqueras worked out a post October 1st agreement.
A who's who of assholery.

(29) How do we know?
PM Rajoy demanded explanations from Iglesias in the Spanish house of Deputies.
Not that he got any.

30) Jaume Roures makes no bones about his trotskyite ideology.
“I make money to serve my ideology” he declared to Libération in 2009.

15 posted on 10/22/2017 1:05:30 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Half the truth is often a great lie. B. Franklin)
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