Posted on 06/22/2017 11:07:53 AM PDT by Sean_Anthony
Too late for asbestos; it will never be brought back. But there's always the hysteria that will beset us tomorrow...
There was no single cause of the tragic 24-story Grenfell Tower conflagration in London. The British newspaper The Telegraph lists eight factors, including lack of dual staircases, lack of sprinklers both outside and inside, and sub-standard fire doors—none of which at this time appear to have violated the law. But nothing contributed more to the sheer speed of the spread, blocking both exits and preventing rescues, and hence the horrific death toll, than what’s called “cladding.” That’s a covering or coating on the structure.
According to The Telegraph, fire safety experts warned as much as 18 years ago that the cladding used on buildings such as Grenfell Tower—used to improve both energy efficiency and aesthetics—posed a deadly threat because it essentially turns a high-rise into a chimney, funneling the heat upwards. Why? Partly it’s “breathing space” between cladding panels allowing oxygen to enter and partly because the cladding was made of aluminum and . . . polyethylene. “Ethyl” means a petroleum byproduct. And while petroleum byproducts may be good for heating and cooling insulation, petroleum burns.
Asbestos is a lot like a big boulder. It’s fine until you disturb it.
I read once that unless one is a long term heavy smoker, asbestos is pretty safe.
The fibers get ingested and then expelled. With smokers, the fibers stick to the lung walls and then do damage.
I’ve worked, supervised and been schooled in asbestos for 26 years. I’ve been told you COULD eat asbestos(if you wanted) but you just can’t breathe it. (Lets the cities with asbestos wrapped pipes off the hook).
There are plenty of fire-stopping materials such as mineral wool that can be used as well as many cementuos materials in the plaster field that have a low flame spread rating. Usually anything with a UL flame spread rating of 25 or below is considered “non-combustible”.
Fire proof is a variable term. Almost anything will oxidize if the temperature is high enough. You are looking for X hours of fire resistance for barriers and certain flame spread ratings for materials that could add to the fire.
re: cladding. At a previous job, I worked with a company that was trying to import exterior wall cladding from Europe.
As I recall, it was made of many layers of Kraft paper and fiberglass resin which was pressed down with a hydraulic ram.
It was kind of cool looking, very expensive and as I recall, it was actually fire resistant.
But, the application did use furring strips placed vertically along the building, which I guess could cause a heck of a chimney stack effect if there were other flammables nearby.
A hot fire being fed lots of oxygen doesn’t need a ton of fuel, the oxygen does most of the burning.
Try to burn one log. It’s near impossible, so it must be fire resistant. Put two logs next to each other, and you have a nice campfire — now the logs are flammable. The fire safety industry is run by idiot crooks hired by idiot politicians.
And, there are plenty of intumescent coatings that can be applied to a surface to prevent heat transfer if there’s a fire on one side. Some are even water-based and easy to apply.
(PM me if you want to know more - I know stuff about this stuff.)
mineral
wool is the answer
The way I remember it is that there are six types of asbestos. Almost any in the right condition can be harmful. Once any of it is friable and/or airborne you should have zero exposure. Certain types are almost always friable in-place and once touched, meaning that those types have to be professionally abated.
Many types, such as commonly found in old floor tile, is not harmful if not disturbed but removal is more dangerous because in aged condition it is more brittle and subject to becoming airborne in dust from breakage.
In certain cases, if it is less that 1% asbestos of certain type and makes up less that 1% of overall demolition, it can just go to a land fill without encapsulation.
Many of us played with mercury as kids in the 50s. We sometimes think that the current cautions are overblown. Keep this in mind, Steve McQueen the actor died of asbestos because his dad worked in a ship yard and children of shipyard workers have a high rate of death just from Dad’s work clothes when he came home from work.
Why did no sprinklers, etc, not break the law?
Quote has been associated with high-rise fires in other countries and its use is restricted in the United States and elsewhere. It was permitted under British regulations, even though safety experts have long End Quote
Use of the cladding is restricted in the
USA!!!
Friable asbestos definitely causes horrible cancers and respiratory problems, with a heavy toll on the miners and processors. I have always wondered how many lives have been saved versus lost by asbestos construction materials and fire proofing. (Obviously individuals are affected, not statistics, but if ending use of asbestos saves 1 life for every 100 lost due to preventable fires, that should be addressed). California requires abatement of asbestos in concentrations 1/100ths as dense as other states and the EPA - it’s a complete racket to fleece property owners.
In the Grenfell situation, information from two other stories suggest to me what happened. Early on, someone identified as “the Architect” of the renovation, stated that he had selected non-combustible materials for the cladding. Another source presented information about the cladding product, showing that it was sold in three grades, only one of which was rated as non-combustible, and appropriate for the taller buildings. The others were never to be used on buildings over 30 feet tall. Sure sounds like particular individuals made the fatal call to substitute known combustible materials for the more expensive non-com version. I’d say that those individuals committed mass manslaughter. As Ross Perot would say, surely their mamas gave them names...
High-rise buildings should be designed so a fire in one unit will not cause fires in other units.
Many high-rise buildings have been built in the USA since asbestos was banned.
The British only had to adopt US building practices.
And the STS-107 Columbia disaster.
Now, in my later years, I have to worry about the street brake jobs I did coming back to bite me?
Asbestos fibers that cause Mysothelioma lung cancer cannot be seen by the human eye. Typically this types of cancer occurred in Asbestos miners, or in those folks involved in the manufacture and production of asbestos related materials, insulation installers or others where the air had a lot of fibers constantly circulating such as barbers and hair stylists in those mining or production towns.
I did my college senior environmental paper on Asbestos. It is one of the most unique naturally occurring materials. It’s property to provide heat shielding is over 3,000 times greater than any manmade material substitute.
Never know. I lost a mother-in-law to lung cancer who had never smoked. Her husband had worked in HVAC for most of his life however and that has a lot of asbestos exposure.
The little I know about it shows it to be an amazing material.
Did your research go into the smoking link that I mentioned? I don’t know the accuracy of it but it seems sensible.
Not in particular. Asbestos companies would market their products tobacco companies to be used as cigarette filters. The traveling salesmen actually had briefcases full of the stuff in various forms for the particular market they were trying to reach.
The Mansville, NJ (as in Johns-Manville corporation)city hall was built in the 40’s or 50’s using all asbestos materials with the exception of the steel, wood, and cast iron pipes!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.