How Could a “Clever” Smoker Possibly Become Ill?

The Coach's Team ^ | 4/6/17 | Doug Book

[FredZarguna]

Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. That part of your post is correct; the rest is not. There is no scientific basis for the rest. Former smokers on nicotine replacement therapy are at no higher risk for heart attack than nonsmokers; neither are smokeless tobacco users.

There is simply no in vivo evidence that nicotine is the culprit in coronary artery disease, and there is a great deal of evidence that it is not.

[FredZarguna]

a) Define occasional. b) If very infrequent, there is no good research.

[FredZarguna]

Nothing is better than unfiltered Camels.

What about unfiltered Pall Mall?

[right way right]

I quit smoking by vaping.
I quit vaping because my stomach started to hurt real bad.
Then I quit nicotine all together.
It was two months before I felt human again.
Not easy at all. Cold Turkey worked best for me.
I smoked a pack a day and used Copenhagan too.
I was a nicotine fiend and could never get enough.
Now, I have nice vascular problems to go with diabetes.
My motivation was life over death.
Vaping was a key step, because it helps your lungs which helps you to excersise and fhat helps your stress and enables you to get in the right frame of mind.
There was nothing easy about quitting smoking at all.
It was two months of hell, aboutt six months before I quit thi king about nicotine. Jeeze, I would dream about smoking a 40 ft cig.

[mass55th]

Everyone but me in my family smoked. I'm 69, and the only one left living. My mother, father, and one sister died of lung cancer. My parents smoked only unfiltered Camels. I can still remember my mother giving me a quarter to go buy them for her at the corner Mom & Pop store. My father was 72, my mother 69 when they passed. The sister who died of lung cancer had stopped smoking 5 years earlier because she had been diagnosed with four aneurysms in her head. They tied off her right inner Carotid artery as it was the one feeding the largest aneurysm. The rest they planned on keep an eye on with regular MRI's. But she contracted lung cancer, and the rest is history. She died on her birthday at the age of 69.

My brother, a Vietnam Veteran died in 1995. He had smoked for many years as well, but was told to stop when he had his first heart attack at the age of 49. He did stop smoking, but he passed from a massive heart attack at the age of 51. My oldest sister was also a long-time smoker. She was an alcoholic, who ended up being in and out of the state hospital. She developed dementia, and was placed permanently in various adult-assisted living homes. Towards the end of her life, she wasn't smoking at all because it was wasn't allowed. She died at the age of 74 from a stroke. Had she still been living on her own, I doubt she would have ever made it to 74.

I have two sons, ages 50 and 46. The youngest one started smoking in his teens. He now lives in Indiana, and was using e-cigarettes, but I have no idea if he's stuck with them or not. My oldest son is like me and has never smoked.

[Organic Panic]

Now in places like Oregon, Washington, and Colorado pot is the new “safe alternative” for cigarettes. It’s amazing the length people will go to portray pot as some wonderful cure all snake oil.

Fact. People like getting high one way or another. Caffeine, beer (my drug of choice) pot, coke, sugar, heroin. I never did see the attraction of cigarettes. I remember watching friends when I was a kid who stole a cig from their parents. It looked like they were going to die after that first puff. It must be good, otherwise why the heck would you take a second puff?

[katana]

I was finally able to quit cold turkey after trying vaping as a substitute. Holding the vapor, even in a high concentration, in my mouth to get a nicotine effect just didn’t create that “ahhh, relax” feeling a single drag on a cigarette gave. And if I inhaled even a bit of the vapor it made me cough worse than any cigarette I’d ever tried. If it helps others quit or at least avoid all the associated nasties your lungs take in from burning tobacco and paper that’s great. And it definitely smells a lot better and dissipates more quickly in a closed space than any smoke. So no objections, but for some of us it’s just a matter of firmly deciding to quit and an application of sustained will power over a genuinely insidious addiction.

[Little Bill]

I was offered one, in a moment of desperation, went on my list with Chesterfield.

Speaking of Chesterfield, one of the reasons I could never smoke grass was the throat ripping, sinus plugging, cheap high I got reminded me of Chesterfields.

[Dawgreg]

I started the Chantix in late February......with quitting goal of the second week of March.....have failed a couple of times, probably had 8 or 9 cigs in March but went to doc Tuesday, sick as a dog with upper respiratory (or flu)......she’s trying to keep me from getting full blown pneumonia. I don’t like the feeling of not being able to catch my breath......screw the cigs, Lord help me with stupidity and good luck to you rktman.

[Dawgreg]

Woohoo- I don’t have to quit smoking potatos and eggplants!

ROTFL......please don’t make me laugh Bob.....it hurts!!

[rktman]

Tryin’ cold turkey like I did 30+ years ago. Don’t need any chanitx induced suicidal thoughts cause they might take my guns away. Well, if I had any that is. Good luck to you too. Hanging in pretty good right now.

[Dawgreg]

I have no self control. Chantix worked fine the first time and is working now but my stupid-arsed mind isn’t. So far I haven’t had any thoughts of suicide this time around and didn’t the first time around several years ago.......perhaps I have no mind to think with as evidenced by my smoking AFTER I set a quit date. I’m hopeless.......but after this bout with whatever it is I have, I hope there’s still a bit of common sense left in my head...........sigh.........:)

[rktman]

U can do it. Actually, that’s how mrs. rktman quit a year+ ago. Started with a bad cold and she just went day by day until all of a sudden it’s a year and a half later. She doesn’t miss it or crave it she says. So far I haven’t bummed one or snuck off to the store to buy any. But I do miss it and still in craving mode right now.

[Joe Bfstplk]

I remember a very old Readers’ Digest article, Why Joe Can’t Quit Smoking. I believe it was reprinted. Anyone know where a copy could be found?

[FredZarguna]

My best friend and I smoked Pall Malls because his dad smoked them, and smoked so many that he never missed a few packs a week that went missing. He would drive down to Richmond a few times a year and load his trunk with cartons at, IIRC, $1.80/carton. This, when over-the-counter smokes were 31 cents a pack in PA (40¢ in the machines: a rip-off.) His dad is still alive at 94, although he cut back to a pack a day about thirty-five years ago when the Post Office, where he worked, made policy that you had to go outside for a smoke.

Actually, when I had money my preferred was Lucky Strike (LSMFT.) I actually did not care for Camel nons. Occasionally, in the summer I'd opt for a pack of Kool nons; highest dosage of tar you can get without a prescription.

In WWII my dad (also still living) said they used to throw all the squad's smokes into a helmet and draw them blind. The reason was that everybody wanted Lucky's, which were one of the few Class A tobacco cigarettes available to the troops. Most of the other brands were made from "bridge tobacco" and were pretty awful. (We always take great care of our GI's. Nothing changes...)

[Flaming Conservative]

You can choose to believe that, if you want to, but in fairness to other readers, the research doesn’t agree with you. I don’t know if you are a tobacco user, or not, and you have a right to your own opinion. But as has been famously said, “you do not have a right to your own facts”.
I realize there is a group of people who believes that the idea of nicotine causing heart disease, etc., is a conspiracy by the government, and I don’t know if you are one who believes that, but while I don’t trust the government as far as I can throw my house, I do believe facts, even if they happen to agree with the government.
No doubt you can list plenty of links about the conspiracies related to tobacco use; there are plenty of them out there. That’s your choice. But, below, is just a small sample of sites about the damage to the body, from nicotine.

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/smo/

https://www.realself.com/question/the-nicotine-constricts-blood-vessels

http://www.upmc.com/patients-visitors/education/cardiology/Pages/smoking-and-your-heart.aspx

http://www.quitnow.gov.au/internet/quitnow/publishing.nsf/Content/warnings-arteries

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/campaign/tips/diseases/heart-disease-stroke.html

http://www.medicaldaily.com/its-not-smoke-its-nicotine-e-cigarettes-may-damage-arteries-265498

http://www.livestrong.com/article/192268-the-effects-of-nicotine-on-the-cardiovascular-system/

[Little Bill]

On my last tour in VN I used to hit the 12th Evac hospital for butts before we hit the field for convoy duty.

You people kept me smoking’ Humps. The Ration card gave you 2 cartons a month when I got evacted out no boxes filled in.

[Flaming Conservative]

And, yes, there are cases of 90 year olds who have smoked since they were 8 years old, and are healthy as a horse. Of course the people who did not have their particular type of constitution, and died much younger, are as silent as the grave, as it were.
I will say, that as a nurse, I have noticed that there are plenty of smokers who have escaped the diagnosis of cancer, though they have suffered with copd, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc., instead. Science is beginning to find out that genetics plays a bigger part in who gets cancer, than was previously known, rather than just lifestyle. I hope, if you’re a smoker, you’re one of the lucky ones.

[Wissa]

But, below, is just a small sample of sites about the damage to the body, from nicotine.

Nope. You produced a bunch of links that say that SMOKING is harmful to your health. Scanning through them quickly, I only saw ONE that directly addressed whether NICOTINE was harmful, and that one seemed to say that maybe nicotine itself is, but maybe it isn't.

[FredZarguna]

Apparently, you think you have some "facts" on your side.

You don't.

The very first article you pointed me to from NIH does not say anything about nicotine.

The second article says nothing except that nicotine is a vasoconstrictor, a fact which I agreed with in my post.

The UPMC says nicotine raises blood pressure and causes temporary vasoconstriction, again, nothing new.

The fourth article does not mention nicotine.

The fifth, from CDC does not mention nicotine.

The sixth is the Ming study. Unfortunately for you, in the four years since Professor Ming -- who is not a clinician and did not do his research with in vitro cells -- published his highly dubious study, NO ONE has been able to duplicate his results.

Your seventh citation is from the website of a known drug abuser and flim-flam salesman, and in any case does not represent anything even remotely resembling a scientific study; it is nothing more than a regurgitation of nonsense that people like you believe from non-scientific sources.

You think I'm a smoker, or ... something. Nope. I quit 25 years ago and despise tobacco products. That doesn't mean we should be trying to scare people with bad science, which is all this is. This article itself is in the category of OH-MY-GOD-SYNTHETIC-SUGAR-SUBSTITUTES-WILL-KILL-YOU. No, they won't.

Here's the actual evidence, multiple clinical studies, conducted on live human beings: 1) Tobacco chewers have similar levels of nicotine in their bloodstream as smokers. EVERY STUDY ever done of smokeless tobacco cardiophysiology has CONFIRMED that tobacco chewers are at NO HIGHER RISK for coronary artery disease than non-smokers. Zero effect.

2) Ex-smokers placed on nicotine replacement therapy after their first heart attack show NO HIGHER LIKELIHOOD of a second heart attack than non-smokers.

Those are clinicals on large numbers of human beings, not cells in a dish or lab animals given borderline toxic doses of nicotine to make some ridiculous "point."

You cited me EXACTLY ONE SCIENTIFICALLY reviewed article on the effects of nicotine, and it hasn't been reproduced in four years.

Not even a good try. Citing a number of irrelevant web pages is not evidence of anything except the shallowness of your understanding.

I want you to seriously consider the damage that YOU, and the person who wrote this preposterous fairy tale are doing: By telling smokers who are making an earnest -- sometimes heroic -- effort to quit smoking that they aren't doing themselves any good on nicotine replacement therapies, you are providing them with a rationalization not to quit, because they will be no better off if they do.

TAR CAUSES CANCER. The reduction in cancer related deaths would be worth it, even if nicotine is eventually implicated in heart disease. So far, it is not. I want you to think about that the next time you tell a guy with a patch or an e-cig he isn't doing himself any good.