Posted on 11/13/2016 9:38:02 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum
Ok, so let’s set the record straight on this whole petition thing floating around that has now received over 3 million signatures called “Electoral College: Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19”.
The argument is that Hillary won the popular vote, so we should abolish the electoral college altogether and the state electors should abandon the electoral votes for Trump, and instead vote Hillary into office. There’s just one problem, liberals…Hillary DID NOT win the popular vote. Here’s why.
First of all, she’s probably not going to win the actual number of votes cast. She may win the number of votes counted, but not the votes cast.
States don’t count their absentee ballots unless the number of outstanding absentee ballots is larger than the state margin of difference. If there is a margin of 1,000 votes counted and there are 1,300 absentee ballots outstanding, then the state tabulates those. If the number of outstanding absentee ballots wouldn’t influence the election results, then the absentee ballots aren’t counted.
Who votes by absentee ballot? Students overseas, the military, businesspeople on trips, etc. The historical breakout for absentee ballots is about 67-33% Republican. In 2000, when Al Gore “won” the popular vote nationally by 500,000 votes and the liberal media screamed bloody murder, there were 2 million absentee ballots in California alone. A 67-33 breakout of those yields a 1.33 to 0.66 million Republican vote advantage, so Bush would have gotten a 667,000-vote margin from California’s uncounted absentee ballots alone! So much for Gore’s 500,000 popular vote “victory.” (That was the headline on the N.Y. Times, and it was the lead story on NBC Nightly News, right? No? You’re kidding.)
So, the next time someone says “Hillary won the popular vote” you can give them this little election lesson, as most people have no idea that hundreds of thousands of ballots are never even counted.
Statistically, there is no way Hillary Clinton won the popular vote this year because 2/3rds of the uncounted absentee ballots would have gone against her.
“We don’t know who got more votes ... "
We can't say that and remain intellectually honest.
The Cleveland Indians scored more total runs than the Chicago Cubs #NotMyWorldSeriesChampions #safetyPin
This needs to be said, and not enough people are saying it. Too many here on this thread and elsewhere are arguing with the Left at their level - that the electoral vote in “unfair” and the president should win by poplar vote, after all, “we live in a democracy.” So here and elsewhere, the Right argues that we DID win by popular vote, rather than the fact that it done’t matter who won by popular vote. It needs to be SAID, not just assumed because many don’t get it.
Too many important issues like this remain unchallenged. People are no longer taught the Constitution or our American heritage in government schools - just the opposite - they are taught lies about the Constitution and our heritage. The result is things like everyone NOT understanding the role of the electoral college just as not everyone understands the difference between a democracy and a republic.
It also needs saying that the electoral college is a constitutional issue and cannot legally be changed without a Constitutional Amendment. If you asked, most would not know if or where the electoral college is found in the Constitution.
The greatest issue we face in the country is the American People needing to once again OWN, KNOW, and REINSTATE THEIR Constitution, our only bulwark of freedom against the tyranny of the feds (or the “majority”), as our Rule of Law - the Supreme Law of the Land against the feds.
It appears to me that this thread concerns a factual dispute as to whether votes were counted if they did not affect the outcome of the presidential race and how those imaginary uncounted votes would have broken out.
In contrast, I do not read this thread the way you do. I do not see this thread as advocating the elimination of the Electoral College and the use of popular vote to determine presidential elections. My conclusion is that you're reading something into this thread that does not exist.
I’m not saying that anyone on this thread is advocating the elimination of the Electoral College.
I am saying the Left wants to use the popular vote argument to try to eliminate the electoral college.
So I’m saying the issue needs to be spelled out so that people on this thread and elsewhere can skillfully argue against the Left - not on the level of whether Trump did or did not win the populate vote - but that it doesn’t matter who won the popular vote and that the Left cannot have its way here without a Constitutional Amendment. Not enough people are saying this and more should be saying it.
For the reasons given, there’s really no need to argue who won the popular vote - but most here are. For that reason, I question some of you assumptions about what the people on this thread do and don’t know about this issue.
There is rationale that is compelling. The Founding Fathers awarded some small extra power to . . . essentially farmland. Farming is just as important to society as people, in those days. Probably more important than some people. You can’t have people living on cropland or it would not be cropland.
Similarly, all that oil in North Dakota, few people live there but the oil is vital, a lot more vital than most in cities. The FF awarded some minor extra power to small states, and none of those states will ever approve a constitutional amendment to remove their power. And so no such amendment will pass.
The rationale of a republican form of government over a “democracy” is very compelling.
But even more compelling here is the legal argument that regardless of who agrees with the rationale, the Electoral College won’t go away without a Constitutional Amendment which, as you say, won’t happen.
So the “popular vote” argument is moot and a waste of everybody’s time EXCEPT to point out to the Left that it is a constitutional issue.
Thanks for the education on this.
Let them knock themselves out and let soros spend his ill gotten gains.
I have a feeling putin (yes, I KNOW he’s an assassin and KGB) and Trump have plans for soros.
I think putin will be some trouble at some point but for now let’s just get rid of the jihadis once and for all.
I have never heard of such a thing. I would need to see the what law they are citing before I believe it.
If you read the article it answers your question.
Not to mention that...
If the popular vote count were to be the method by which someone wins the presidency, then...
Every state would have to insure that illegal aliens could not vote. Every state would be a lot more careful about who and when and where people vote. The illegal alien voter issue is given lip service by most in the media and in politics and government, but it would become a much bigger issue if the electoral college were to be done away with.
Furthermore, voting would be limited to perhaps just the Tuesday of voting, and no early voting would be allowed, except for the military and Americans working or studying overseas. Those overseas votes and military would ALWAYS get counted, unlike happens currently.
Since it would be the NATIONAL voter count that elects the president, then, the federal government would be a lot more involved in insuring that all the votes get counted, and states and counties and districts would all be answerable to the federal elections officials and to federal judges. The whole process might be taken from the states and counties.
If a liberal says to you, “But, but, but Hillary won the popular vote...”
YOU say, “But, but, but Trump won the most States”...
When liberals say, “It doesn’t matter who won the most States”
YOU say, “yeah... AND it doesn’t matter who won the popular vote either”.
I’m so sick of these people deciding they have the right to redefine reality based on ‘what gives THEM’ the advantage.
But I think many of us remember reports from Bush v. Gore in 2000 that some ballots in Florida would never be counted.
I don't remember which ballots were allegedly assigned this "not necessary to be counted" status, but it might have been the military ballots that came in from overseas. There was a lot of outrage over this iirc.
States don’t count their absentee ballots unless the number of outstanding absentee ballots is larger than the state margin of difference.
My Florida absentee ballot was thrown out because, “The signatures didn’t match”. There’s a first time for everything. :-/
Many absentee ballots are cast by voters who are unable to vote at their physical polling place due to being an active duty military member, a family member of someone on active duty or a U.S. citizen residing overseas. All ballots submitted according to State laws are counted in every election.
The media often will report the projected outcome of the election before all of the ballots are counted. In a close election, the media may report that the outcome cannot be announced until after the absentee ballots are counted. However, all ballots, including absentee ballots, are counted in the final totals for every election ? and every vote (absentee or in-person) counts the same.
From https://www.fvap.gov/vao/vag/appendix/faq
In California, ALL absentee ballots are counted:
All valid vote-by-mail ballots are counted in every election in California, regardless of the outcome or closeness of any race.
This is from:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voter-registration/vote-mail/#vote-by-mail
My point is that the core of the issue here is a legal argument: that regardless of who doesn’t like it (the Left and those that don’t understand it), the Electoral College won’t go away without a Constitutional Amendment which won’t happen.
The “popular vote” argument is moot and a waste of everybody’s time EXCEPT to point out to the Left that it is a constitutional issue.
I see. Of course. I agree with you. If they want to change the rules, there is a long process, and it certainly would not count to change the current election results. What they are too short-sighted to realize is that if they get it changed, and next time their candidate gets the electoral votes, but the conservative gets the popular vote, they will be unhappy again. They just want who they want.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.