Posted on 08/19/2015 6:02:18 AM PDT by don-o
“The evidence you offer is wearing the support patch and awareness of bad blood. Any other facts? Just saying that “involvement” is an indefinite word, and some meat has to be put on that before reaching a conclusion that one or both of the Engishes had entered into an agreement involving perpetration of a crime.”
I’m not the prosecutor and this isn’t the trial. That evidence is good enough for me. I know how these groups operate, and you do not wear a “support patch” for an outlaw club for no reason. It means something, and for those of us who know what it means, it is plenty of evidence in and of itself to refute the silly excuses people have been tossing about around here.
As for the specifics, the prosecutors have indicated they have evidence of a more definite conspiracy involving the events that day, and I’m sure that will all come out at trial.
Which colors are they flying?
Outlaws? Mongols? HA? Some other group like that? Or just some riding club?
There’s a huge difference between the two.
At least ping me if you are going to spout nonsense about me.
“I believe your position is that those facts, once proved beyond a reasonable doubt, represent a criminal act.”
No, that’s not my position, by the way. I was commenting that this testimony refutes some of the “everyone was innocent and the cops made everything up” narrative that people have been pushing. That’s all.
Yep. Needs a prerequisite crime. Merely associating with someone who has committed a crime is not a basis for a racketeering charge.
So what actual basis crime do you believe these individuals have committed?
What nonsense? You sharing an identity with TG? Or something more specific?
Sure, that idiotic idea, and falsely attributing that I think we can shoot people based on what they are wearing.
The police can certainly use lethal force on people that are in the midst of a murderous rampage, though, that is my position, for the record.
“So what actual basis crime do you believe these individuals have committed?”
Jeez, maybe the dead bodies they left in the parking lot might be a clue?
Would you like me to run through the list of charcteristics you share with TG?
Witness reports say the dead bodies were caused by the police, and the police are hiding the evidence. Video gagged. Autopsies gagged. By the prosecutor not the defendants.
Police were already there in force before any incident occurred. So the options are to a) believe the police even though they have suppressed all evidence and stacked the grand jury with a foreman from among their own ranks; or b) sophisticated career criminals are going to commit murders in plain view of an obvious and overwhelming police presence.
It’s plain to me which of the possible explanations is the more likely one.
If we follow your logic, anytime a government agent shoots someone, the associates of the dead person are the first ones we should suspect are to blame for the killing.
Ultimately your position is based on blind faith in the government, a position which time and time again has proven to be foolish, not only in the general case but also in the last mass murder case in Waco itself.
I do feel as if I just had the exact same exchange as I previously had with the mysteriously absent TG. Their “the government is always right” approach is identical, and they are equally immune to the idea that citizens have rights and that firing hundreds of rounds into a crowd is not a lawful method of law enforcement.
“Witness reports say the dead bodies were caused by the police, and the police are hiding the evidence.”
Where are these “witness reports”?
“Video gagged. Autopsies gagged. By the prosecutor not the defendants.”
Yeah, not that unusual while investigations and prep for the prosecution is going on. It’s a whole lot more unusual for evidence to be released to the public prior to the trial, because that can taint the jury pool.
“Police were already there in force before any incident occurred. So the options are to a) believe the police even though they have suppressed all evidence and stacked the grand jury with a foreman from among their own ranks; or b) sophisticated career criminals are going to commit murders in plain view of an obvious and overwhelming police presence.”
Who said they were “sophisticated”? These are biker gangs, not international espionage rings. Biker gangs have many times in the past demonstrated their willingness to go to war with each other in broad daylight, in full view of the public and even the police. It’s even a point of pride for them.
“If we follow your logic, anytime a government agent shoots someone, the associates of the dead person are the first ones we should suspect are to blame for the killing.”
Nope, that’s not my logic. Now, if the government sees criminals and their associates, in public, committing mass violence and murder, then of course they should arrest those involved.
“Ultimately your position is based on blind faith in the government, a position which time and time again has proven to be foolish, not only in the general case but also in the last mass murder case in Waco itself.”
Nope, not blind faith, just refusal to believe paranoid conspiracy theories with no evidence. We’ll see whose position is foolish in a few months, when the trials start and all the evidence is on the table. I’m not worried.
Ha! This should be good, go right ahead.
I’d be interested in knowing how I could be the same person as a guy who lives thousands of miles away from me. I’m no quantum physicist, but it seems implausible to me.
Jim, sorry to have to bring this to you through this venue, but there was no Report Abuse button available. Some things should not be ignored.
Sure don’t have any issue with any discourse, even marginally civil.
This from Freeper Finny, Post#26 sure sounds a lot like a personal threat, where most of us come from.
“Your ass has a large and well-deserved target on it and it will no doubt be kicked soundly and squarely.”
I certainly have no fear from idiotic loud talkers that hide behind online anonymity as they are always blowhards.
One thing these sort of vicious actions directed toward another poster does chip away at the integrity of FR and may cause others with good ideas turn away.
Is this the sort of forum behavior you had in mind when coming up with Free Republic? I doubt it, as it does not further any discussion rapport, but that is your decision to make.
Well, I think it may have been friendly advice. You might want to be a little more careful about calling all bikers gang members criminals. We have some mighty fine patriot rider gangs in these parts.
I guess you would call it “Just some riding club” established in the late sixties by a bunch of guys primarily interested in drag racing. Currently active members range in age from twenty something to over sixty. About half are either active or retired military. I got my patch in ‘79 after riding with them for two years.
Ha!
Thanks! Being the only FReeper who actually knows where TG lives wasn’t even on my list.
Huh?
His state is in his username...
Very funny.
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