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Short 12 ga "Firearms" Proliferate; Mossberg quells rumors
Gun Watch ^
| 10 May, 2015
| Dean Weingarten
Posted on 05/11/2015 5:57:00 AM PDT by marktwain
Legal configuration, 14" barrel. Shockwave Technologies Raptor Grip installed
A major controversy during the NRA Annual Meeting was the regulatory box the ATF had constructed for themselves with regulatory letters and the law. I was surprised to learn that firearms that fired shotgun shells with a bore of more than .5 inches, and a barrel length less than 18 inches, could legally be purchased and possessed without all the complex regulatory burden and $200 tax required by the National Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act of 1968, and all the following changes.
The firearm pictured above is based on the Model 500 series. At the Shockwave Technologies site, there is considerable discussion about ordering a 14" front end to use to build a legal (non NFA) firearm with a barrel less than 18 inches.
Shockwave Technologies has a copy of the ATF letter from July 20th, 2010, in which they clarify that barrel length is not the determining factor for shotguns without shoulder stocks.
I made some more inquires. I found a credible source, who wishes to remain anonymous, that said that Mossberg had stopped shipping the 14" front ends that are used in the Shockwave configuration. This intrigued me, as rumors at the NRA meeting were that the manufacture of such guns was part of the box that the ATF found themselves in. The timing was about right for the NRA meeting controversy.
I contacted Mossberg directly, and asked for clarification. I asked if Mossberg had stopped shipping 14" front ends, and if the ATF had contacted them. Here is the question that I asked:
I have learned that Mossberg decided to stop shipment of 14" front ends for the model 500 shotgun in the last few weeks.
I would like to know what the reason was for the decision, and if Mossberg was contacted by the ATF prior to the decision.
Here is the reply from Mossberg, via email:
That seems simple enough. Mossberg says that they have not stopped shipments of their 14" front ends, and that they have not been contacted by the ATF. Perhaps my source was merely aware of a 'pause' in shipments while Mossberg assessed their policies and procedures. What policies and procedures were being assessed is not stated.
It is understandable that Mossberg wants to be very careful in this situation. I am sure that they remember the backlash from the gun culture that changed the ownership of Smith & Wesson, and cost Ruger millions in revenue when they were perceived to be colluding with the government on restrictive federal laws. Those events happened during the Clinton administration.
Meanwhile, another company is producing 12 ga "firearms" that are relatively small. Black Aces Tactical is offering this model. It is covered by the ATF letter, and is classified as simply a "firearm". Black Aces Tactical makes their own receivers and magazines. The barrel here is only 8.5 inches long.
|
Photo from Black Aces Tactical |
Notice that it uses a Sig arm brace (not a stock) and receiver extension to make the ATF length requirement of more than 26 inches. The 10 round detachable magazine is quite interesting. H/T to Guns.com. Another model has the same receiver extension, except that the extension folds.
These short guns firing shotgun shells have obvious self defense applications. There is no reason why these guns should be treated any different than ordinary pistols. Functionally, they are either large pistols or small shotguns. Both shotguns and pistols are constitutionally protected by the Heller and McDonald decisions. There is no valid reason for treating these firearms any differently than other shotguns or pistols.
Except for the legacy issues created by the NFA, GCA1968, FOPA and the various BATFE letter rulings. Those are what puts the ATF in a box, and why they are reported to be sweating.. dare I say it.. bullets.
David Hardy sums it up well:
Every shotgun but the diminutive .410 has a bore greater than half an inch. The "sporting purpose" exemption doesn't apply, since that is limited to shotguns, and as we have seen, these firearms are not "shotguns" under the definitions of the NFA.
The situation as it stands is thus: BATF must never have realized that these firearms are NFA "destructive devices," and as a result thousands, if not millions, are in private possession of persons who bought them legitimately over the counter, with no reason to suspect that there was anything legally amiss.
The mere pictures of the above firearms show how arcane and irrational national firearms law has become. There are people in jail for possession of firearms that are no different, functionally, from what the ATF has ruled do not require $200 taxes and do not fall under the NFA.
The ATF is facing multiple federal lawsuits relating to the manufacture of muzzle brakes and machine guns. Any one of these lawsuits is likely to be granted discovery of all the ATF regulatory letters. At last report, in the late 1990's, there were over 300 cubic feet of them. Those will reveal a web of contradictions, that are not allowed under the Constitution with the Heller and McDonald decisions.
There is no rational reason why the Black Aces 12 gauge is legal, but a full stocked .22 single shot rifle with a 15 inch barrel requires a $200 tax stamp and the full, draconian provisions of the NFA.
The usual sequence is that when small manufacturers find a profitable market, large manufactures start production of their own models to take advantage of it. I will be watching to see if Mossberg or other large firms start offering pistol grip 12 gauge firearms of similar configurations.
It is an interesting time, and I believe the end result will be reform of federal gun laws, to something far more rational and less burdensome than now exists.
©2015 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch
TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; destructivedevice; nfa; sbs
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National firearms law is riddled with logical inconsistancies. If President Obama were not in office, we could make some real reforms.
1
posted on
05/11/2015 5:57:00 AM PDT
by
marktwain
To: marktwain
Holder’s replacement shall rule...ILLEGAL!
2
posted on
05/11/2015 6:03:13 AM PDT
by
TurboZamboni
(Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.-JFK)
To: marktwain
That is one nasty looking shot gun. I would not want to be on the receiving end of that. Nor would I ever want to use that indoors. Aside from making you deaf, it would ruin your entire wall...not just the normal 12 ga. pattern.
To: TurboZamboni
While a 410 isn’t a 12 gauge, I wouldn’t want to be hit by one. Fewer pellets but the same velocity.
4
posted on
05/11/2015 6:12:53 AM PDT
by
refermech
To: marktwain
Being completely unconstitutional anyways, when the NFA/GCA/FOPA lets a shoestring be a machine gun, a 1/4" hole in an AR15 receiver (the empty hole of air) declared a machine gun, and the inconsistencies and backtracking of the NFA Technologies branch (Atkins bump-fire machine gun "springs"), then the law needs to be scrapped.
No law should be so onerous and confusing to trap innocent law-abiding citizens. There are people in prison for paperwork errors and their business and livelihood destroyed by ATF technical bureaucratic edicts......that is if they don't murder you first.
5
posted on
05/11/2015 6:13:46 AM PDT
by
DCBryan1
(No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
To: marktwain
Any ruling from the ATF is subject to change without notice.
6
posted on
05/11/2015 6:14:21 AM PDT
by
Blood of Tyrants
(A free society canÂ’t let the parameters of its speech be set by murderous extremists.)
To: marktwain
All these arbitrary rules and restrictions regarding length and configuration need to go. Why, 7 years post Heller, do these garbage regulations still exist?
To: marktwain
Taurus Judge .45 Colt/.410
8
posted on
05/11/2015 6:30:31 AM PDT
by
null and void
(My favorite drawings at the Muhammad cartoon festival in Texas were the two chalk outlines out front)
To: marktwain
shouldn’t LAWS emanate from CONGRESS and not from isolated bureaus agencies and such with the power of the “law”.... but in fact political operatives...and not representing the will of the people...
LETS GET BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION
9
posted on
05/11/2015 6:35:53 AM PDT
by
zzwhale
To: refermech
I laugh at the .410 round. You can shoot it directly at my eye, and my eyelashes will deflect the pellets.
10
posted on
05/11/2015 6:40:02 AM PDT
by
Lazamataz
(Jeb Bush makes John McCain look like Barry Goldwater.)
To: marktwain
>> If President Obama were not in office, we could make some real reforms.
With the current Senate? You’re delusional. Given their performance to date, even with a Republican president, there would either be no meaningful reform, or else a step backwards.
11
posted on
05/11/2015 6:42:14 AM PDT
by
Nervous Tick
(There is no "allah" but satan, and mohammed was his demon-possessed tool.)
To: marktwain
12
posted on
05/11/2015 6:45:35 AM PDT
by
Big Red Badger
(UNSCANABLE in an IDIOCRACY!)
To: null and void
One of the silliest pistols of all time.
13
posted on
05/11/2015 6:50:53 AM PDT
by
Durus
(You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
To: Lazamataz
Snakes don’t have eyelashes.
14
posted on
05/11/2015 6:52:57 AM PDT
by
null and void
(My favorite drawings at the Muhammad cartoon festival in Texas were the two chalk outlines out front)
To: marktwain
Interesting info about Short Barrel Shotguns & Any Other Weapon(s)
15
posted on
05/11/2015 6:53:11 AM PDT
by
smokingfrog
( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
To: Durus
Probably a reasonable carry in snake country.
Snakes don’t have eyelashes...
16
posted on
05/11/2015 6:53:36 AM PDT
by
null and void
(My favorite drawings at the Muhammad cartoon festival in Texas were the two chalk outlines out front)
To: Durus
*except California. It’s banned in California...
17
posted on
05/11/2015 6:54:17 AM PDT
by
null and void
(My favorite drawings at the Muhammad cartoon festival in Texas were the two chalk outlines out front)
To: marktwain
By far the stupidest part of the act is the prohibition against suppressors.
To: null and void
I will defer to your expertise. Where is COM on a snake any way?
19
posted on
05/11/2015 7:05:01 AM PDT
by
Durus
(You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
To: Lazamataz
I laugh at the .410 round. You can shoot it directly at my eye, and my eyelashes will deflect the pellets. (i.e. I fart in your general direction.)
How about this? :-)
or
This? :-) :-)
or even this? (at :23) :-0
20
posted on
05/11/2015 7:05:23 AM PDT
by
Oatka
(This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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