Full declaration of war is the process for declaring war — this undeclared war policing action
crap that we've got our armed forces isn't.
No, the constitution limits what the government does to its citizens. That’s it. We’ve extended that to legal residents as well. That’s fine,
So then the guarantees of the sixth amendment don't extend to, say, a foreign tourist even though it says In all criminal prosecutions
?
but you cannot do such things as spying or war without ignoring those limitations,
Hm, looks like the NSA has ignored these limitations, even if you claim them to only apply to citizens.
The claim about yanking citizenship requires due process (unless the act is flagrantly illegal).
Ah, yes — we know the government would never deem something to be illegal, or flagrantly illegal.
Just like they would never twist bureaucratic discretion
based on politics.
And we should all rest assured that the numerous laws referring to bureaucratic rules will never be turned against us.
I think even recent history shows the folly of thinking like that.
The world is not a nice place.
I never said it was.
But is the existence of evil a valid excuse to be evil?
Is the existence of injustice a valid excuse not to act Justly?
Is the existence of lawbreakers justification for breaking the law in order to bring them to justice
?
If you are a Christian, then I think to answer affirmative to any of these is to call Jesus a fool and deny the authority of his instructions on the Sermon on the Mount.
This is where libertarians fall down in their normally rational world view (not implying you are libertarian, but this position of yours is).
Doesn't that suggest that the rationalization
and excusing of actions here could be irrational?
They seem to think that our own government is more of a threat than any other government. That’s myopic.
That's actually very insightful: in the past two centuries far, far more have been killed by their own governments than by war and terrorism.
Even if we assume our own government is a bunch of tyrannical oppressors, there’s no reason to assume the other governments are not as well, and the local oppressors have a vested interest in at least some measure of well being of their oppressed as they need them. Other governments have no such interest.
Er, this sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.
I know this will come as a surprise, but declaring war when there is no country to declare it on is a bit tricky.
Though truthfully, that’s a dodge on your part. There’s no part of the Bill of Rights which says that the protections evaporate during war.
Also, you appear to have selective reading comprehension. I mentioned that the protections extend to legal residents (tourists are legally here right? )
Now what is cute here is how you’re trying to position me, without me actually going there. Do I think the NSA should spy on citizens? No, not without due process. I do, however, think they should spy on any damn other person on the planet if they can pull it off and there is a reasonable reason to do so. My position is clearly stated, yet also clearly ignored by you.
And once more somehow we get from me thinking government limitations stop at the border (but still apply to citizens elsewhere) to you expecting concentration camps to spring up if this government acts like every other one in the war and foreign espionage realm.
Bringing out a bible to thump me with is not a way of furthering the argument. We’re talking the constitution remember? I don’t recall that being a religious document.
I know you imagine the world will permit us to keep lily white gloves on, but history doesn’t agree. I don’t trust our government much at all. However I sure as hell trust it a good deal more than foreign governments. There is a balance to be struck, and it is tricky between granting government enough power to protect us from others but not to grab so much power to threaten us.