How does Banning Citizen Carry of Guns in Kroeger's Stop Armed Robbery?

Gun Watch ^ | 18 October, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Bank Robber in a Kroeger's

On freerepublic.com, a discussion about the Moms Demand Action push for a gun ban following an armed robbery of a bank inside of a Kroeger's, brought this commonly expressed question.  This one was from rktman:

"Uh, how would this have stopped the robbery again? Please 'splain that to us."

I will explain it.  MDA is playing a very long game.   In order to be effective, they have to reduce the number of guns in society by large, large, amounts.  They have to avoid considering any benefits gained from gun ownership.  Here is how I believe they think it will work:

1.  Bully retail establishments into banning the carry of guns in their stores, as a step to make guns illegitimate in society, as the combination of trial lawyers, legislators, and the old media have done with cigarettes.

2.  Keep incrementally banning guns everywhere possible to make guns more and more socially unacceptable, and legally difficult to own, in order to reduce the number of legal gun owners.

3.  When the number of legal gun owners are reduced sufficiently, ban the legal ownership of guns, except in extremely restricted circumstances.  Think Japan and the U.K.

4.  Gradually, through incremental gun confiscation, "buy backs", increasingly draconian restrictions on ownership and use, perhaps over a couple of generations, reduce the number of guns legitimately owned by 99 percent.

5.   This will start to reduce the number of guns used criminally by some amount, it does not matter how little.   As soon as the number of gun owners and/or guns start to drop, immediately claim credit for any crime reduction, even if the trends started long before your legislation and are not backed up by facts.

6.   Keep up the pressure, and eventually, after several decades, we will have less crimes committed with guns.   This is sure to happen, because even though crime has not been reduced elsewhere when guns were banned or restricted, we have a much larger number of crimes committed with guns than the UK or Japan.  Brazil, South Africa, Mexico, and Jamaica do not count because they are not the UK or Japan.

7.  An increase in crime by other means does not matter.   The goal is to reduce the number of crimes with guns, so only statistics involving guns matter.    It does not matter if overall homicides increase, if they are not committed with guns.   We can always turn our efforts to banning knives, as they have in the U.K.

8.  We know that governments will be beneficent all along the way, because no western democracy has ever been overthrown in the last 75 years.   Argentina, Venezuela, Mexico and Ukraine or other examples do not count, because they were not really western Democracies.   We know this because they were overthrown, invaded or became failed states, so they never were real Western democracies.  Blame their problems on the second amendment or on western democracies. 

9.   The efforts to reduce gun violence will not be rendered useless by 3D printing, smuggling, home made guns, or other technologies.  This is because we will define "gun violence" as violence with guns that were once in legal channels.   If a gun was produced illegitimately, we cannot be blamed.  We will also do everything we can to reduce access to those technologies that can be used to produce guns by anyone outside of governments.  

So you see, sometime in the far, far distant future, after the Constitution has been completely trashed, and the U.S. is a Utopian socialist state like the UK, we will have reduced armed robberies committed with guns by some amount.

This general program seemed to be working until about 1994, except, of course, the crime rate kept increasing with more restrictions on guns.   About 1994 "gun control" peaked, as did the levels of violent crime.  The electorate rebelled against the Clinton gun ban.  Second amendment supporters made serious gains from 1994 through 2013.  The rate of "gun violence" and overall violent crime fell in half.

I do not believe that the disarmenters have sufficient media control to pull off the above program, as illustrated by the failure of the Obama push for more gun control.   We are in the process of seeing  if a combination of old media push and new "progressive" billionaire money can do the trick.

A serious challenge exists in the tens of millions of dollars that are being thrown into initiative processes such as the Washington state initiative I-594.    If the disarmenters fail there, after spending 10 times as much as second amendment supporters, they may fall back for another 20 years.

©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

[marktwain]

The article does not cover UN treaties, indoctrination in the schools, or the mass importation of voters from places where preventing people from having access to guns is the norm.

[faithhopecharity]

I do not carry a firearm, but always try to avoid shopping at any stores that request customers not to carry...

as a matter of principle

(and personal safety)

[BereanBrain]

it’s concealed. Their “request” if not formed in a legal manner holds the same weight as an opinion.

[Darksheare]

Doesn’t cover guns sent to criminals courtesy of Eric Holder and the batfe.
Criminals will always be able to acquire guns.
Laws only impact the law abiding.

[Bob]

Everybody knows that posting a “No Guns Allowed” sign will keep armed robbers from bringing in guns, right? Well, don’t they? Perhaps only in the fevered imaginations of the Moms Looking For A Little Action.

[faithhopecharity]

yes, and obviously there are tons and tons of folks who carry concealed (with or without “permits”), and this helps us all be safer (most of the time).

but having some open carry people around makes us all safer, I believe, in that criminals can actually SEE some of the Trouble they’ll get themselves into if they assault anybody (you, me, or the store clerk)

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

Illegal guns are ok.

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

Of course a no guns sign keeps criminals from bringing in guns, you think a robber wants to go jail.

[driftdiver]

No actually they are a property owner. They have a legal and moral right to determine what happens on their property.

Not to mention getting caught with it could be armed trespass, a felony in my state.

[BitWielder1]

1. Bad guys shoot bad guys.
2. Bad guys shoot good guys.
3. Good guys shoot bad guys only when absolutely necessary.
4. Good guys don't shoot other good guys.

Taking away legal guns will not improve 1. or 2.

[Tupelo]

I do carry a firearm (legally w/CCW) and I do not carry a gun into any establishment that has a sign telling/asking me not to. Of course, I also do not go inside and spend any money in any establishment that tells/asks me not to carry a firearm in their business.
After all, in the end it is their business and their decision.

[Darksheare]

Criminals with guns gifted to them by Obama are okay.

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

Never seen such a group with twisted self defeating logic. Of course they have to live on the taxpayers, they sure can’t make it on their own.

[Sasparilla]

A well aimed customer firearm fired would have stopped “Skeletor” in his Air Jordan tracks.
My brother was relieved of the store’s cash at a grocery store office about 30 years ago when a .45 was pointed at his face. That was his resignation notice.

[Talisker]

#3 marks the starting point of the second civil war.

The rest of the numbers don’t count.

[Darksheare]

Yup.
And even worse are the states that enable criminals by making defending yourself illegal and forbidden.

[TigersEye]

Gun control activists are pushing a boulder up Mt. Everest to make the mountain smaller...

The Dem/libs have been engaging in a steady push to infringe on our right
to keep and bear arms for decades. And this is how it has been working out
for them in the last two decades...

• The percentage of Americans who own guns has increased.
• The percentage of Americans who believe we have a right to own guns has increased.
• The number of guns owned per gun owner has increased.
• The amount of ammunition possessed per gun owner has increased.
• Concealed carry laws have spread from state to state like wildfire.
• Castle Doctrine laws have been passed in numerous states.
• Stand Your Ground laws have been passed in many states.
• Gun rights lobbying groups have become a cottage industry unto themselves sprouting up like mushrooms after a rainstorm.
• In the worst economy since the Great Depression the firearms industry can't keep up with orders or expand fast enough.
• 65.4 Million Guns Bought Since Obama Took Office, 91% More Than Bush's First-Term Total
• 46,455 Background Checks For Gun Purchases Each Day Under Obama

And in the last two months... (Nov. 2012 and Dec. 2012)

• Americans Buy Enough Guns in Last Two Months to Outfit the Entire Chinese and Indian Armies
• NRA membership has increased by 250,000. (Jan. 2013)

And it continues...

• NRA Surges to Record 5 Million Members (May 4, 2013)

And there is more...

• FBI Report: Early 2013 Crime Decrease Coincides with Gun Sales Boom

And more...

• FBI: March 2014 Was Biggest March in Gun Background Check History
  ...the raw data shows "2,488,842 total background checks
  were performed in March 2014."

MOLON LAVE! WE'LL BUY MILLIONS MORE. ;-)

[Darksheare]

Skeletor was likely a baby mike brown type who didn’t want to be recognized.
A well aimed shot would have been most informative.

[Talisker]

No actually they are a property owner. They have a legal and moral right to determine what happens on their property.

Open to the public means they have to accommodate rights. And people have a right to self-defense. Just as people have a right to be homosexual and demand homosexual wedding cakes.

Laugh if you want, but those legal issues are joined at the hip. Liberals are bringing on something they can't even imagine.

[real saxophonist]

I know you’re a big Open Carry proponent, but my one armed encounter happened when I was concealed carrying. That guy’s in prison for 67 years.