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LA:Gun Bluffs do not Always Work
Gun Watch ^ | 15 October, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 10/15/2014 12:40:07 PM PDT by marktwain

No Ammo is Available for the .442 Rimfire Tranter shown


Bluffing with a gun often works.   Most criminals do not wish to be shot; they run away.   But sometimes, the criminal is drugged, crazy, or  determined, and they "call" the bluff, often with direct, aggressive action.  It is then that you need a few skills to keep from being hurt or killed.   First, do not allow the criminal to get close (within five feet) of you.   Inside that distance, it is very hard to stop a determined person who has the advantage of action over reaction.    From klfy.com:
The caller also stated that his 87- year old grandfather confronted the suspect with a shotgun after he made entry into the home. The suspect then pulled the gun away from his grandfather who then fell to the floor and suffered injuries to both arms; they then fled the home...
If they refuse to stop, and continue to close, you would likely be justified in using deadly force.    A person who knows that you have a gun, and is trying to get at it, is a deadly threat.  I say mostly, because if the person with the gun is a 230 lb martial artist, and the person approaching is a 90 lb, 80-year-old woman, the jury may well consider that a lesser degree of force would have worked.   While shotguns can work very well to stop a threat, long guns are considered easier to take away, because of the leverage that they provide.   The problem with bluffing with an unloaded gun, is that you cannot shoot if you need to.
Officers arrived on scene to find four people one of which was the injured grandfather out of the residence. They informed the officers that they believed the suspect was still inside the residence and was in possession of their grandfather's unloaded shotgun.
There are other options.  For long guns, defenders can practice the old bayonet drill, without the bayonet.   Thrust with the muzzle, hard and fast, to the solar plexus, throat or face; then a slashing upward butt stroke (barrel goes over your right or left shoulder); followed by a forward thrusting butt smash.   With a solid stock and a steel buttplate, these actions can kill;  lightweight stocks and recoil pads diminish the effects of the butt strokes considerably.

For handguns, an unloaded handgun of reasonable size still makes a fairly effective short club.  Hold it by the grips, strike with the muzzle.  Front sights often retain skin and blood, which can be valuable DNA evidence.  This sort of abuse can cause damage to the gun.

Personally, I would prefer to have ammunition available, but life is far from perfect.  In the case mentioned, no one was killed.  The 87-year-old grandfather had serious bruises to his arms.   That can cause complications.   Older people are not as resilient and take longer to heal.
The suspect was identified as Perry Tyler (44) of 828 St Cyr St. Opelousas. He told the officers thank you after he was taken into custody. Tyler's behavior was consistent with someone being under the influence of PCP, he was wet and told officers that they, unsure who they was, were after him.
People on drugs such as alcohol, PCP, Meth, or simply adrenaline, can be very hard to stop; sometimes only physical disablement will do.   If you want to understand what physical punishment the human body can take, and still function, I recommend reading what Medal of Honor winners did.  Some of them even survived.

 ©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch


TOPICS: Education; Health/Medicine; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: 87; banglist; bluff; la
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Many people used guns to bluff with. It does not always work.
1 posted on 10/15/2014 12:40:07 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
That revolver is a particularly bad choice to bluff with, since you can see there are no shells in the cylinders.
2 posted on 10/15/2014 12:47:52 PM PDT by Hugin ("Do yourself a favor--first thing, get a firearm!",)
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To: marktwain

1) Keep your primary, secondary and ‘secondary back-up’ guns loaded at all times.

2) Don’t bluff. If you are not willing to kill the attacker, do not draw your gun in the first place.


3 posted on 10/15/2014 12:50:06 PM PDT by WayneS (Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.)
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To: Hugin

Don’t bluff. If you are going to take out a weapon to protect yourself, it better have ammo in it.


4 posted on 10/15/2014 12:51:30 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Ebola: Satan's End Game for Humanity.)
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To: Hugin

There could be one under the hammer, but it would rotate out of position when the hammer is cocked.


5 posted on 10/15/2014 12:55:13 PM PDT by marktwain (The old media must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain

If your attacker is within 20 ft. you’re in danger.

You have about a second and a half to make a life or death decision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill


6 posted on 10/15/2014 1:01:59 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: marktwain

BLUFF? If I pull my gun out and the perp makes one more movement toward me then he is dead - and if there are more than one then they are all dead - I practice the hell out of shooting.

I shoot while moving forward, backward, side to side. I practice shooting at moving targets while I am moving - and every moving target is shaped like a human.

I never, ever pull my gun to bluff. If it comes out people scatter or die - simple as that.


7 posted on 10/15/2014 1:12:20 PM PDT by msrngtp2002 (Just my opinion.)
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To: marktwain

By contrast, if the hammer is already cocked, the visible cylinders may be empty but there may be a live round under the hammer. It’s called Russian Roulette.


8 posted on 10/15/2014 1:14:44 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Hugin

Ever watch John Wayne’s THE ANGEL AND THE BAD MAN? The girl unloads Wayne’s pistol, when the bad guys show up, he finds it unloaded but still meets them holding the pistol in his hand in such a way they cannot see into the cylinders. They back away.


9 posted on 10/15/2014 1:15:06 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: smokingfrog

The Tuller Drill has probably resulted more innocent civilians killed by cops than cops lives it saved.


10 posted on 10/15/2014 1:17:16 PM PDT by Fido969 (What's sad is most)
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To: Hugin

The Tranter was an early cartridge pistol made in England in the early 1870s. I once fired an 1860s muzzle loading Tranter revolver, it was around .44 or .45 caliber as I recall. Fun to shoot.


11 posted on 10/15/2014 1:27:52 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (NRA)
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To: Hugin
That revolver is a particularly bad choice to bluff with, since you can see there are no shells in the cylinders.

Probably having your finger on the trigger would help also.

12 posted on 10/15/2014 1:38:06 PM PDT by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: WayneS

>If you are not willing to kill the attacker, do not draw your gun in the first place.<

.
You’re intent should never be to kill an attacker (that would make you a murderer) but to stop him.

That you had to fire two in the chest and one in the head is an entirely different matter and only shows that the attacker was an extremely tough guy.


13 posted on 10/15/2014 1:49:26 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: marktwain

Why in the name of God would ANYONE wish to bluff some thug with an unloaded gun?? If you don’t have any ammo, go get some before you decide to play chicken with a .44!


14 posted on 10/15/2014 2:07:34 PM PDT by Oldpuppymax
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To: Fido969

The Tueller drill just illustrates one simple thing: that if a police officer is *ready* to shoot at someone charging him with a knife, the distance typically has to be 21 feet or greater, or else the cop has a strong chance of getting stabbed or slashed. This means he draws his gun from a hip holster and double taps the knife holder in center of mass.

What this means for a civilian, who is *not* expecting an attack, and has concealed carry, is that they have serious problems they must deal with.

1) Their attacker will often use subterfuge to close the gap. This is a predicament because all sorts of people with no ill intent at all will close the gap with you for legitimate reasons. This makes drawing and brandishing a gun very problematic.

2) Attacks may be very fast, especially from behind, looking to quickly disable you. Also with multiple attackers, who will converge once you are disabled.

This is why I insist that if you conceal carry a gun, you really, truly need a knife as a complementary weapon. You can have a knife in your hand, with the blade hidden behind your forearm, and most people won’t even notice it.

You can pull your knife in any situation with no one the wiser, and as soon as you do you have a protected area around your person. Optimally it will buy you time to pull your gun, but if not, it is a substantial weapon on its own, superb for “in-fighting”.


15 posted on 10/15/2014 2:17:10 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Ever watch John Wayne’s THE ANGEL AND THE BAD MAN? The girl unloads Wayne’s pistol, when the bad guys show up, he finds it unloaded but still meets them holding the pistol in his hand in such a way they cannot see into the cylinder...
A hand well positioned in coat pocket has an unnerving affect on most would be crooks ... another form of Russian roulette?


16 posted on 10/15/2014 2:24:29 PM PDT by Recompennation (Constitutional protection for all not ju st selectively for Democrats.)
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To: marktwain

Help me out here. Is that a scene from a movie?


17 posted on 10/15/2014 9:15:26 PM PDT by Redcitizen (Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.)
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To: Redcitizen

No, a young lady that I met at church. I needed images for blogging, so she agreed to a photo shoot.


18 posted on 10/16/2014 6:30:02 AM PDT by marktwain (The old media must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: marktwain
The most famous movie bluff of all time worked but life ain't like the movies particularly when it comes to guns or a whole lot of other stuff.


19 posted on 10/16/2014 6:52:29 AM PDT by xp38
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To: 353FMG

I understand what you are saying.

That is why I said “willing” to kill, not “intending” to kill.


20 posted on 10/16/2014 8:19:45 AM PDT by WayneS (Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.)
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