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To: livius

I don’t know where you get your information, but it isn’t accurate. What did you do, visit those American hate museums in Mexico, financed by the Russian government?

The Spanish Viceroyalty of New Spain (Colonial government) used to patrol “their” claims in what is now Georgia and South Carolina during the late 1500s and early 1600s. If they found any settlers who were not Spanish, such as French Huguenots, the entire settlement was offered a chance to convert to Roman Catholicism and when rejected, everyone was murdered. That included women and children.

You don’t believe the Mexicans felt the same? There were problems with Mexican officials in the late 1700s and early 1800s who demanded bribes from American traders, and other irregularities such as seizing American ships and keeping their cargoes (and occasionally murdering crews).

The Mexican government, which had recently freed itself from Spanish control, was viewed by American officials as “dysfunctional”. They had looked upon the situation in the period post 1812, considered going to war against Mexico and rejected the idea. There was no ‘hate’ against Mexico.

Settlers from Mexico could not be enticed into Texas, so the new Mexican government offered land to Americans willing to come to Texas as settlers. Converting to Roman Catholicism was mandatory, and many took the offer.

The reason Texans, both of Mexican and American origin, decided to revolt was due to when Santa Ana suspended the 1824 Republican Constitution in order to establish a highly centralized government. Civil war spread across the country, and three new governments declared independence: the Republic of Texas, the Republic of the Rio Grande and the Republic of Yucatán.

It would be 15+ years before Texas joined the United States, and the arguments in Congress were ferocious by the varied political parties.

Mexico was a political mess, always in revolt and debt. They settled some international charges by foreign governments by offering land in North America. That is how the U.S. came to the realization that Mexico couldn’t manage California and New Mexico. Mexico couldn’t provided enough troops to protect their people from marauding Indians.

In the 1780s Mexico was a large and populous colonial nation that had far greater resources that the puny 13 United States with a population of about three million. Forty years later it would be quite different, which just demonstrates how inefficient a highly centralized government with a stratified society based on the Spanish Viceroyalty was compared with the free-wheeling United States of America.

No, livius, it was the Mexicans who hated the successful United States, not the other way around.


20 posted on 05/25/2014 2:22:11 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll

Actually, Spain had claimed and even settled most of the American Southwest and SE, including Florida. The only Huguenots who ever landed here were sent by the French king in 1565 to prevent the Spanish (who had already explored and claimed the territory of Florida) from settling on the Atlantic coast, since most Spanish settlements had been on the Gulf coast although the Spanish had gone all the way to the Hudson on the East coast and had planned to build a number of settlements there.

When the Spanish learned of the French plans, they sent Pedro Menendez de Aviles, the commander of the Atlantic fleet, to Florida. He was also going to look for his son, who had disappeared in the Caribbean during one of the voyages, and the Spanish Crown funded his voyage with the condition that he would protect Spanish Florida.

When he got here, the French king (who was Catholic, btw) had sent the Norman Huguenots. Normans were excellent sailors but generally considered pirates by Spain and the rest of Europe, because they either had letters of marque or didn’t have letters of marque and simply set out on their own. They harassed the coasts of Spain and Portugal and also the Azores. They would plunder not only ships but coastal villages, destroying and sacking the (Catholic) churches, and on more than one occasion, setting fire to them with the priest and the more important parishioners inside. In their words, they did this “on behalf” of Protestantism and not France, btw.

Pedro Menendez actually spent 5 years in a French prison because they captured him and wouldn’t exchange him.

When he got here, the French had arrived about 2 months earlier and had built a fort. They were Protestants because that was the group that the (Catholic) French king had sent here. Menendez attacked the fort, spared the women and children (and the musicians, because often the pipe band was made up of young people who had been impressed or captured, and had no ideological views) and sent the survivors away on various ships.

One of the ships turned back to St Augustine, and the Huguenots were sneaking up on the town to attack the population in their sleep when Menendez found them and killed them all (except for the Catholics and the musicians, who were impressed or prisoners).

One of the other French ships went off course and ran aground, and the French shipwreck victims unfortunately arrived not long after the French attack. Menendez put them to death too, but he actually later on said that he regretted this because he let his anger at the earlier attack overcome his military procedures. Normally, the second group would have been spared and ransomed for Spanish sailors and military personnel in French captivity, but he couldn’t feed them for the winter and he obviously was not inclined, after the first French attacks, to begin negotiations with a French king who had not even openly declared this war.

You have to look at all of this in the context of European history, something of which most Americans are completely ignorant.

Religion played into it, too, however, and was used by both sides. But the Protestant hatred of Catholics is probably why the Protestants were destroying Spanish churches on the Spanish coast, burning to death villagers and priests, and leaving destruction that can still be seen (they hacked off the hands and faces of the statues). Almost as bad as the Muslims.


23 posted on 05/25/2014 3:07:44 PM PDT by livius
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