You mean like this one: 
Out of everyone posting here thusfar, boatbums has a degree in Biblical studies.
My condolences... Perhaps BoatBuns should demand her money back then...
Posted on 03/02/2014 3:59:10 PM PST by Errant
I'll give you both. That still leaves ten, if my math is correct. I'll even throw in the following:
All of the "Church Fathers", both East and West, testified to the Semitic origin of at least the Book of Matthew, as the following quotes demonstrate:
Papias (150-170 C.E.) Matthew composed the words in the Hebrew dialect, and each translated as he was able. (quoted by Eusebius Eccl. Hist. 3:39)
Ireneus (170 C.E.) Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect. (Irenaeus; Against Heresies 3:1)
Origen (c. 210 C.E.) The first [Gospel] is written according to Matthew, the same that was once a tax collector, but afterwards an emissary of Yeshua the Messiah, who having published it for the Jewish believers, wrote it in Hebrew. (quoted by Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 6:25)
Eusebius (c. 315 C.E.) Matthew also, having first proclaimed the Gospel in Hebrew, when on the point of going also to the other nations, committed it to writing in his native tongue, and thus supplied the want of his presence to them by his writings. (Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 3:24)
Pantaenus... penetrated as far as India, where it is reported that he found the Gospel according to Matthew, which had been delivered before his arrival to some who had the knowledge of Messiah, to whom Bartholomew, one of the emissaries, as it is said, had proclaimed, and left them the writing of Matthew in Hebrew letters.
(Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 5:10)
Epiphanius (370 C.E.) They [the Nazarenes] have the Gospel according to Matthew quite complete in Hebrew, for this Gospel is certainly still preserved among them as it was first written, in Hebrew letters. (Epiphanius; Panarion 29:9:4)
Jerome (382 C.E.) “Matthew, who is also Levi, and from a tax collector came to be an emissary first of all evangelists composed a Gospel of Messiah in Judea in the Hebrew language and letters, for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed, who translated it into Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Furthermore, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected. I also was allowed by the Nazarenes who use this volume in the Syrian city of Borea to copy it. In which is to be remarked that, wherever the evangelist... makes use of the testimonies
of the Old Scripture, he does not follow the authority of the seventy translators [the Greek Septuagint], but that of the Hebrew." (Lives of Illustrious Men 3)
"Pantaenus found that Bartholomew, one of the twelve emissaries, had there [India] preached the advent of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah according to the Gospel of Matthew, which was written in Hebrew letters, and which, on returning to Alexandria, he brought with him." (De Vir. 3:36)
Isho'dad (850 C.E.) His [Matthew's] book was in existence in Caesarea of Palestine, and everyone acknowledges that he wrote it with his hands in Hebrew…(Isho'dad Commentary on the Gospels)
Other "church fathers" have testified to the Semitic origin of at least one of Paul's epistles. These "church fathers" claim that Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews was translated into Greek from a Hebrew original, as the following quotes demonstrate:
Clement of Alexandria (150 - 212 C.E.) In the work called Hypotyposes, to sum up the matter briefly he [Clement of Alexandria] has given us abridged accounts of all the canonical Scriptures,... the Epistle to the Hebrews he asserts was written by Paul, to the Hebrews, in the Hebrew tongue; but that it was carefully translated
by Luke, and published among the Greeks. (Clement of Alexandria; Hypotyposes; referred to by Eusebius in Eccl. Hist. 6:14:2)
Eusebius (315 C.E.) For as Paul had addressed the Hebrews in the language of his country; some say that the evangelist Luke, others that Clement, translated the epistle. (Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 3:38:2-3)
Jerome (382) “He (Paul) being a Hebrew wrote in Hebrew, that is, his own tongue and most fluently while things which were eloquently written in Hebrew were more eloquently turned into Greek (Lives of Illustrious Men, Book 5)
It should be noted that these church fathers did not always agree that the other books of the New Testament were written in Hebrew. Epiphanius for example, believed "that only Matthew put the setting forth of the preaching of the Gospel into the New Testament in the Hebrew language and letters." (Epiphanius; Pan. 30:3) Epiphanius does, however, tell us that the Jewish believers would disagree with him, and point out the existence of Hebrew copies of John and Acts in a "Gaza" or "treasury" [Genizah?] in Tiberius, Israel. (Epipnanius; Pan. 30:3, 6) Epiphanius believed these versions to be mere "translations" (Epiphanius; Pan. 30:3, 6, 12) but admitted that the Jewish believers would disagree with him. The truth in this matter is clear, if Greek had replaced Hebrew as the language of Jews as early as the first century, then why would fourth century Jews have any need for Hebrew translations. The very existence of Hebrew manuscripts of these books in fourth century Israel testifies to their originality, not to mention the fact that the Jewish believers regarded them as authentic.
In addition to the statements made by the early Christian church fathers, the ancient Jewish Rabbis also hint of a Hebrew original for the Gospels. Both the Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds and the Tosefta relate a debate among Rabbinic Jews over the method of destruction of manuscripts of New Testament books (t.Shab. 13:5; b.Shab. 116a; j.Shab. 15c) . Specifically mentioned is a book called by them as ALEF-VAV-NUN-GIMEL-LAMED-YUD-VAV-NUN (see end note) (or "Gospels"). The question which arose was how to handle the destruction of these manuscripts since they contained the actual name of God. It is of course, well known that the Greek New Testament manuscripts do not contain the Name but use the Greek titles "God" and "Lord" as substitutes. This is because the Name is not traditionally translated into other languages, but instead is (unfortunately) translated "Lord", just as we have it in most English Bibles today, and just as we find in our late manuscripts of the Septuagint. The manuscripts these Rabbi's were discussing must have represented the original Hebrew text from which the Greek was translated.
He can not change himself but he certainly can change direction as was proven in the scripture I posted...
He became manifest in the flesh which was a pretty significant change so we know he can change like that...
It was against God's law to eat pork because it was unclean...God changed that, didn't he...
John the baptist was told to baptize with water but Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit...All kinds of changes in the scripture...
Even you guys admit to changes...How many of those 613 Laws still apply to you???
God has been known to change course even in the Torah...
Not when it makes him out to be a liar, nor when it causes his prophets to speak untruly.
In the Torah, the prophets spent a great deal of time prophesying about the Millennial reign of a physical kingdom with a King on a physical throne...A kingdom where the Torah will be in full force...That prophecy is all still true...
The apostle Paul does not void the Torah...The laws of the Torah along with it's feasts and sacrifices have been set aside by God while Israel has been set aside...Not eliminated, but set aside temporarily...
In that context Paul is not a liar...
You aren't getting what I am saying. I am saying that what you see in Paul's words isn't what he is saying. It can't be, or he is a false prophet.
Paul's epistles can not be made to be understood to align with the Torah...You can chose to disregard what I accept that Paul teaches but you are no better off because you then have to trash most of what Paul says anyway...What Paul teaches just doesn't fit with the Torah, because it was not intended to...
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And the fact (as you look at the chart) the Hebrew of the time of the First Advent starts to become more 'integrated' with the Greek.
Nice table, though it gets a little old after about the dozenth time that you've posted it. Our tax dollars at work?
A language is much more than the letters it uses to form representative words of thoughts and objects. Hence, much of the Greek language is devoted to their belief in Pagan Gods.
*sigh*
Once again . . . if you have empirical evidence of the original Hebrew New Testament, please present it. Until you do so, you are simply fantasizing, and I have no interest in following a religion based on fantasy.
In assuming you are using the term "New Testament" to mean any of the original texts, I offer that the same forces who were behind the crucifixion were likely engaged in destroying any and all written records of those events.
LOL . . . "proof by allegations of cover-up." No evidence is proof that the evidence has been totally erased from history!
You mean like this one:
Out of everyone posting here thusfar, boatbums has a degree in Biblical studies.
My condolences... Perhaps BoatBuns should demand her money back then...
About the time of Paul's vision, Peter was preaching to Cornelius. So I usually give Gentile "first contact":) to Peter. However, the ministry of Paul was clearly defined to the Gentile nations. And where there were Jews, Paul preached to them first and some came aboard and many did not and we see two instances of Paul proclaiming he would now go to the Gentiles.
Well now, looks like you and ol' Joseph Smith have something in common, at least by your logic it would seem he has as much authority on the abilities of a Hebrew/Jewish bible scholar by the name of Nehemiah Gordon as you do! ;)
Jeremiah 5:
20 “Declare this in the house of Jacob And proclaim it in Judah, saying, 21 ‘Hear this now, O foolish people, Without understanding, Who have eyes and see not, And who have ears and hear not:
Mark 8:
18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember?
Matthew 13:
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’ 16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Who was that written to? Paul starts out by saying “my brethren”. He was writing to those believers who were following the gospel as he preached it to them. What about those who preached “another gospel”?
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Not all who claim to be are "brethren".
Using your logic, lets see your original "Greek" epistles then...
See, that defense works both ways FRiend!
Looks like you're having a "melt-down" RL?
I think more importantly which ones were clearly fulfilled after Jesus Christ said all would be fulfilled. Meaning of course all the types and shadows of Messiah fulfilled in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as well as Him sitting at the Right Hand of the Father.
Good post. We may still differ on how much is "set aside." Clearly to me none of the moral laws are set aside. We are to live holy lives in obedience. But an obedience which can only come with being called by God and spiritually regenerated by His shed Blood.
>> “I will assume you see Gordon, as he studies the NT, will come to confess Yeshua as Messiah and Lord. If not then how can Gordon be an authority on the Words of Yeshua?” <<
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I think so. He’s an intelligent man, and his life is completely devoted to Yehova.
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At least those who have eyes to see and ears to hear understand that.
It was the Lost sheep of the House of Israel that were grafted back in. They are the gentiles.
What'd you do, trade your New Testament for a Reader's Digest???
I brought this to your attention before but you apparently ignored it...
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
We KNOW that those underlined words refer to Israel...In this verse and others, Israel is put in contrast to the Gentiles...They are not the same...
So it is your contention that the Pharisees are the house of Israel, but they are not the lost sheep???
LOL, of course the Greeks were pagans before receiving the Gospel. So were all the other nations and many Israelites and Jews. When the Kingdom of Judah exiles came back from Babylon the Hebrew language significantly changed incorporating Chaldean. They were pagans too.
You can be amazingly dense when you want to be!
Read the last chapter of Hosea.
Israel has most definitely NOT been set aside, they are his elect, his bride, they are who he is coming for, and who he came to send his apostles to.
The only others that will be saved are those that attach themselves to her.
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I've notice a distinct characteristic of those who seem to be your "brethren" CB (af_vet_1981 doesn't fit the pattern), that characteristic seems to be the unconscionable ability to engage in falsehoods...
>> “Paul wrote to me” <<
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You are reading Israel’s mail.
Yes it was preserved for all to read, but the fact that you are reading it is solid evidence that you are Israel.
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