If Obama wins: Will Texas secede from the union?

BizPac Review ^ | Michael Dorstewitz

[JRandomFreeper]

Of course you aren't going to side with Texas renewed independence if you are getting money from pointing a gun at us.

Texas does grow wheat, and corn, and barley.

I don't need you. You are expensive. I don't like you. I've had this conversation before. Next comes the divorce.

/johnny

[donmeaker]

If the targets hit in Pakistan were enemies of Pakistan and the US, carried out with the cooperation of the Pakistan government, then they were not attacks on the Pakistan government.

Just as General Andrew Jackson attacked pirates on an island off the coast of Florida that then belonged to Spain, when a power can not control its territory, it loses claim to sovereignty.

[JRandomFreeper]

Scared that California can't survive without sucking Texas blood and treasure?

/johnny

[Road Glide]

“The union between Texas and the other states is perpetual and indissoluble.”

There is no man-made “union” — nor anything else man-made — that is “perpetual” and “indissoluble”.

Everything put together sooner or later.... falls apart.

That goes for nations and empires as much as it does for edifices and the other instrumentalities of life. Why should this nation be any different?

What did Mr. Shelley write about Ozymandias?

[donmeaker]

So file for divorce. That doesn’t give you the right to burn down the house, empty the bank accounts, shoot the children.

[JRandomFreeper]

Some folks don't want us to just say goodbye.

I have no interest in a fight. I just want out.

Folks like you, seem to want to keep us in the Union at the point of a nuclear gun.

I just want to get the heck away. I'll manage.

/johnny

[donmeaker]

Not a bit. I was born in Oklahoma, and have lived in Texas, NY, MO, and CA, among other places. California doesn’t do too well in the pursuit of federal largess. Our congress critters don’t have a foreign policy, unlike Tx.

[null and void]

when a power can not control its territory, it loses claim to sovereignty.

I see.

So we've lost our sovereignty along our border?

Does that mean Washington has no claim on, say, Arizona?

[donmeaker]

So leave.

[JRandomFreeper]

You are willing to let Texas secede without a fight?

/johnny

[donmeaker]

No, the loser was declared through might. The winner was declared by law.

[null and void]

I am, if you’ll take me...

[donmeaker]

No, I am willing to let you buy a plane ticket and leave the country. Be like Denise Rich, and declare you are no longer a citizen. Let history forget that you were once our countryman.

Bye.

[JRandomFreeper]

I'm a celibate, but thanks. ;)

Anyone that believes in real freedom is accepted. Texas is the original created thing. Stolen from Mexico, dog's breakfast of a republic, member state of the US.... It's not pretty.

/johnny

[JRandomFreeper]

You don't get that choice, slick.

I will stand on my ground and define the government the way I want it.

Anyone that doesn't like it can pound sand.

Your bottom line is that you will use force to keep Texas in the Federal Union.

/johnny

[donmeaker]

Texas would not have control over nukes stationed there, any more than SC had control over Ft. Sumter. Attempt to take control by the secessionists would cause the war, as it did last time.

Why would secession cause a war? Because legal secession is difficult requiring 3/4s of states or 2/3rds of Senate and President to make a treaty. Illegal secession poses different difficulties. If you can get control of the presidency and 2/3rds of the senate, why would you need to secede?

[rustbucket]

Texas was crushed the first time and will be crushed again if it tries to secede from the union it voluntarily entered into.

Four campaigns or battles come to mind: (1) Galveston, (2) Sabine Pass, (3) Mansfield, and (4) the Rio Grande campaign of John Salmon R.I.P. Ford.

Galveston. The Feds took Galveston but were then thrown out on their ear in a few months by land troops and sharpshooters on two cotton-clad bayou steamers going against ships of the US Navy. One cotton-clad grounded, but the sharpshooter on board were effective against sailors on the deck of the Union ship Harriet Lane, the ship that had fired the first naval shot of the war at Charleston in 1861. The other cotton-clad rammed the Harriet Lane and tilted her over. The other federal ships were either scuttled or fled under a flag of truce leaving the Federal land forces to be captured.

Sabine Pass. The Feds next decided to invade Texas through Sabine Pass (on the border with Louisiana) rather than through Galveston. Here is a monument that commemorates that battle:

I'll correct the details on the monument. The initial Federal invasion force was 5,000 men. Ten thousand more were to come later when the beachhead was established. Four Federal gunboats led the invasion up the shallow pass and were tasked with shelling the mud fort, which they did for an hour and a half, and landing a force of troops to take the fort. Twenty-two transport ships (one source says 18) carrying the Federal invasion force followed behind the four gunboats. Apparently the Federal gunboats expected the Confederates to withdraw from the fort because of the bombardment, but Dowling and his 42 men did not leave, but held their fire.

The four gunboats then moved in closer. The Feds noticed some sticks sticking out of the water in the Pass but kept on coming toward the fort. Those sticks were used for cannon target practice by the men of the fort. When the first two Federal ships reached the sticks they were promptly hit with shells from the fort which disabled the ships' boilers. One hundred Federals were killed or wounded. Dowling did not lose a man. Three hundred fifty Federals from the damaged gunboats surrendered to Dowling when the rest of the ships turned tail and headed back to New Orleans.

Federal Admiral Farragut, who had helped plan the Federal invasion, called the battle of Sabine Pass the most shameful incident in the history of the US Navy.

Mansfield. The Federals sent a force of 25,000 up the Red River with the objective of capturing the Louisiana wartime capital at Shreveport and returning Texas to the Union. The Federal invasion was stopped by 11,000 Texas and Confederate troops at Mansfield, Louisiana. The Feds retreated to the Mississippi River.

Rio Grande. Finally, the Feds invaded Texas from the sea along the Rio Grande Valley. Its main objective was to stop Confederate cotton trade through Mexico and stop supplies (guns, etc.) coming into Texas from Mexico. The Federal force was 6,000 strong. One part of them reached Laredo where they were defeated by Texas Hispanics under Colonel Santos Benavides.

Texas formed the 1,500 man "Cavalry of the West" under old Texas Ranger captain John S. R.I.P. Ford to clear the Rio Grande Valley. His 1,500 men drove the Federals back down the Rio Grande to an island off the Texas coast. Ford defeated the Feds in the last land battle of the war in May 1865 at Palmetto Ranch (also called Palmito Ranch).

Sources. My sources included but were not limited to:

Lone Star by T. R. Fehrenbach
Battle on the Bay, the Civil War Struggle for Galveston by Edward T. Cotham, Jr.
The Last Battle of the Civil War by Jeffrey William Hunt.

[JRandomFreeper]

If you can get control of the presidency and 2/3rds of the senate, why would you need to secede?

We don't seem to have those cards in this hand, so backing out of the game and daring the FedGov to do something about it seems like a good poker strategy.

You going to push for nuking Texas?

BTW, governments don't control nuclear weapons. People do.

/johnny

[null and void]

Let me rephrase that...

[donmeaker]

I wouldn’t bet on treason on the part of people in the “Personal Reliability Program”.

Sounds like a losing hand to me. There are a bunch of big buildings in Las Vegas because the odds favor the house. Of course people arrive in 40,000 cars every day and after playing leave in 300,000 vehicles. As a courtesy they often are given bus fare home by the casino.