Posted on 05/01/2012 6:43:33 PM PDT by joeclarke
Well, I’ll be... Learn something new every day. Who knew Hannibal got to Japan?
Well, I’ll be... Learn something new every day. Who knew Hannibal got to Japan?
Zama is located SW of Tunis in North Africa.
Zama is also a city in Japan - but not where they deployed war elephants!
BTW, I recall that Zama had the most elephants (both sides) of any battle in history. Must have been something to see. I wonder if it was like the big battle scene in Return of the King.
It freaked out enemy horses - and freaked out the enemy who was unused to it - but they were of dubious usefulness in most battles - and more trouble than they were worth in most cases. A panicked elephant attacked BOTH sides - and it happened often.
And although the Carthage war elephants were bigger and meaner than wild elephants - they were not nearly as ludicrously huge as depicted in Peter Jackson's “The Return of the King”.
Scipio Africanus had an effective strategy for dealing with elephants - and it was simply to space his divisions a bit further apart. Given the natural path between divisions - the elephants were less likely to trample OVER a division.
Right. My mistake.
I meant TAMERLANE. That guy knew how to jack up the Middle East.
I would put Zhukov on that list, he saved Stalin’s bacon, and as his reward, after the war, Stalin demoted him.
Just kidding! I was stationed at Camp Zama back in the day. I also went on R&R to Tunisia but I don’t remember seeing any road signs for Zama there.
That must have been quite a spectacle, herding all those elephants on to ships in Tunisia and taking them to Europe, then through the Alps. African elephants don’t take too kindly to being herded. Were those that Hannibal used imported from south Asia? Just asking.
A lot of ancient battle sites are unknown other than in general terms. Rivers change course, the land changes, towns move expand or contract.
My sisters met a couple Irish gals and brought them over for dinner. When they mentioned they were from Dublin I said “I always wanted to visit Clontarf where Brian Boru won his great victory over the Vikings.”
They were agape - “We are FROM Clontarf!” they said!
I assume they got the impression that Americans were much more familiar with their home town that was actually the case!
We went back to Ireland in 2002. My niece got married in the same church in which my grandfather was baptized in Adare, co. Limerick.
In a fantasy match, Lee and the ANV would have made mince meat out of the French Army and Napoleon, given the same mid 19th century weapons.
The Romans were greatly surprised and terrified by the elephants in the first part of the war,but eventually they figured out how to fight them (letting them through the ranks, isolating, then killing them). I can't recall how the Romans got their own supply; it may have been a combination of capture and their own trading (Macedonians as middle-men?). For a while after Hannibal's defeat the Romans continued to use war elephants, but eventually gave them up.
Livy and Polybius are great ancient sources for Punic War histories.
Zama no longer exists--probably the result of urban renewal and population management--Roman style. The battlefield is near Siliana, on Route P4, 80 miles southwest of Tunis.
Today has not been a total loss! I learned something new about the Punic wars. I just watched “Alexander” last week and saw how his armies made contact with the Indians who riding their war elephants the Greeks. Looks like you paid a lot more attention in class than I did.
Killing Bin Laden was justice but in the end it didnt really mean squat.
Bin Laden was not much of a shot caller at that point. He made videos telling his minions to attack us but big deal. Like they needed him to order attacks.
And Obama wanted to sleep on it and get back to the CIA. It sounded like pulling teeth to get a decision out of barry.
Obama is a putz....he cant order a personal Pizza without consulting his advisors about what to get.
BTW, I recall that Zama had the most elephants (both sides) of any battle in history
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Good thing they weren’t on Guam.
It would have tipped over.
Heard a good line on the Chris Plante (WMAL WashDC) the other day
“Obama taking credit for the killing of OBL is like Nixon taking credit for the moon walk and space travel”.
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