Hatred on a Web site that purports to speak for Islam

Star-Tribune ^ | Apr 21, 2002 | Barry D. Cytron

[veronica]

In a college course I teach, the heading for this week lists the topic this way: "Ethics after the Holocaust."

The syllabus requires students to read essays by philosophers and theologians who wrestle with unrelentingly disturbing questions: Is genocide what religious texts are ultimately referring to when they speak of "the fall of man"? What prompted some to courageously resist, others to spinelessly submit and become killers? Can radical evil ever teach us anything?

[Sabramerican]

Send presents. This guy is going to have his Bris in seven days. Seems he was born yesterday.

[My Identity]

the Middle East tragedy is more intractable than we might even imagine. For resolution will remain remote so long as each side denies the other's history, and their legitimate grievances.

I find the above almost laughably inane.


From the Palestinian Violence video:

"Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are.
Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them.
Wherever you are, kill the Jews, the Americans who are like them, and those who stand by them.
They are all in one trench, against the Arabs and the Muslims.
They should be slaughtered. They should be murdered.
Such is the word of Allah."
- an Islamic mufti, broadcast on Pali TV

So...
Muslim "True Believers" see the Arab-Israeli conflict as religious.
Therefore, any compromise with the Israelis is a heresey.
Therefore, any "peace process" that requires compromise is heresey.
Therefore, only complete surrender or complete victory will bring peace.

So far, the US has not let the Israelis obtain complete victory.
Therefore, Israel's only options are surrender or death.
And if Israel goes, the US is next on the islamists' list.
Or as they famously put it: "After Saturday comes Sunday".

If anyone can explain how Islam isn't the issue here, I would be eager to listen.
If anyone can explain how this isn't a clash of civilizations, please post away.

"But this thing won’t end, won’t die out with the death of Osama Bin Laden. Because there are tens of thousands of Osama Bin Ladens by now, and they’re not only in Afghanistan or in other Arabic countries. They’re everywhere, and the most hardened ones are right in the Western world. In our cities, on our roads, in our universities, in the ganglions of technology. That technology that any dolt can handle. The Crusade has been in progress for some time. It works like a Swiss watch, sustained by a faith and a malice comparable only to the faith and malice of Torquemada when he led the Inquisition. The fact is that dealing with them is impossible. Reasoning? Unthinkable! Treating them with indulgence, tolerance or hope? Suicide! Whoever thinks differently is deluded."

Anger and Pride
by Oriana Fallaci

[17th Miss Regt]

What the movie captures so intelligently was the humdrum quality which pervaded that conversation. It was as if company executives were meeting over lunch to discuss the latest manufacturing technique or marketing initiative.

Hannah Arendt coined the phrase 'the banality of evil' to help explain how these things happen. Heydrich was quoted in this film as saying, "Shared knowledge means shared responsibility." The same idea allows the participants to rationalize away their responsibility. "I am just a small cog in a big machine."

I see a major clash coming between Islam and the West, and the results will not be pretty.

[Eala]

a Web site called "RadioIslam." There I found Holocaust revisionism at its worst, a full-throated denial that there had ever been any slaughter. On my screen was a so-called objective analysis of Wannsee, insisting it was a fabrication. Alongside this claim were other computer pages denying the gas chambers and crematoria.

Um. Just started checking (and don't know if I can follow through), but the RadioIslam page here merely asserts that there is no proof that Hitler directly ordered it. Still looking, though...

[backhoe]

Indexed!

[Cachelot]

Radio Islam is in Sweden. It is linked to by a great many neo-nazi/white-supremacist sites in the US. Including the lairs of many on this site.

[swarthyguy]

Wannsee Conference is a great movie. A little dry, a little boring even as the meeting continues and horrendous items are discussed in between coffee and cake. Overall chilling, it exemplifes the statement "banality of evil".

[mtman]

For resolution will remain remote so long as each side denies the other's history, and their legitimate grievances. If this conflict descends into either side refusing to recognize how we got to where we are today,.....I think you are on to someting that I has puzzled me for some time...DENYING HISTORY!! ....My question to you is:...Historically, why is it that throughout the ages, the Jews have been expelled from almost every country they have ever been in?...I ask this in all seriousness, as I have no answers...just questions...Perhaps when we can see the bigger historical picture, we will be able to "recognize how we got to where we are today" Im at a loss for answers...

[Cachelot]

Im at a loss for answers...

You are at a loss for a brain. This is nazi talking point #666, and is covered in detail by your fellow f*ckheads on Polinco. Dawdle on over there and drink wisdom from the toilet bowl, skunky :).

[mtman]

Great answer!...I can tell you are highly educated and have put much thought into your response...I learn alot here..Thanks!

[StevenJ]

As a history teacher in a small New England school, I have learned to take history with a grain of salt. It changes day to day with new discoveries. However, that being said, there are things that we know that is hard, solid fact. One of these is the existence of concentration camps by the Germans during WWII. Even if I did not have faith in the written records, films, and eyewitness accounts of the atrocities committed during that time, I have faith in my father who was in the 9th division. His company liberated a concentration camp in in 1945. My dad was one of the people I could count on to tell me the truth about anything I asked him. He did not say much about it because he just did not talk about the war. But one of the things that made it very believeable was the fact he said it did not bother him at all. He had seen a lot of war and his company had taken a beating the day before where they suffered over 50% casualties during an artillery barrage. For those who say the holocaust did not happen, peddle your lies somewhere else, preferrably to the devil.

[veronica]

You might find this article interesting. It's a good one:

The Deniers' Real Goal by Jeff Jacoby.

[SKempis]

So much for any credibility you might claim in other posts.

[bjcintennessee]

I read an article about your question several months ago, and wish I could remember the details instead of paraphrasing the general idea.

It mentioned that throughout history Jews have managed to prosper in most societies. In early history, money-lenders were frowned upon as being greedy while taking advantage of others misfortune. Since the Jews had the money to loan, they became money-lenders. Although this may have created resentment among their peers, they didn't have any major problems until impoverished rulers around the world basically forced the Jews to lend them money. In order to avoid re-paying their loans, several rulers encouraged their people to ostracize the Jews and force them to leave the country (actually, I think it began with one ruler and was so successful that it spread to other rulers in similar positions).

I don't think this article was referring to biblical times, but more in the times of monarchies. If I recall where I read this, I will see if I still have it and send you a correction of any errors and fill in the blanks.

[powderhorn]

:...Historically, why is it that throughout the ages, the Jews have been expelled from almost every country they have ever been in?

Let's not forget that religious wars have been the norm rather than the exception in the western world for most of the last 2000 years. For most of that time "The Church" was not just The Church, it was the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire ruled unchallenged as the greatest authority to make or break monarchial governments throughout the western world. The Empire would not tolerate any other maker of nations to thwart its authority.

It is only in very recent times that Christians have seen Jews as allies rather than enemies.

[this_ol_patriot]

Historically, why is it that throughout the ages, the Jews have been expelled from almost every country they have ever been in?...I ask this in all seriousness, as I have no answers...just questions.

An answer.

Why the Jews?-The Shocking Explanation for the World's Longest Hatred

[DontMessWithMyCountry]

Fantastic reply. Sometimes i wish i could master sarcasm as well. There certainly is a time and place for it, and you timed and placed it where it was absolutely needed. Thanks for saying to mtmn what i'm afraid i could only have politely said (which would have had NO effect), no matter how much i would try NOT to be polite ;-)

[Cachelot]

I can tell you are highly educated and have put much thought into your response...I learn alot here..

Actually, not much thought needed for dealing you a b*tchslap - just scrolling through your previous posts is quite enough to see what we're dealing with. Also, you seem to be one of those strange guys signed up in 1999 suddenly come to life just now. Now run along to your little friends, vermin.