Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Judge Says 'No' to WTC Trash Talk
1010 WINS News ^ | 3/31/02

Posted on 03/31/2002 7:55:03 AM PST by areafiftyone

NEW YORK (AP) -- Judges in two separate cases have rejected the free-speech claims of defendants arrested on disorderly conduct charges after police said they publicly praised the World Trade Center attacks.

Judges William Harrington and Neil Ross of Manhattan Criminal Court refused to dismiss charges filed against defendants Reggie Upshaw and William Harvey.

Harrington's decision, made public Friday, dealt with charges of disorderly conduct and inciting to riot against Upshaw. Upshaw allegedly praised the attacks to a crowd of about 50 people near Times Square a few days after the devastation.

Harrington quoted Upshaw as saying, "It's good that the World Trade Center was bombed. More cops and firemen should have died. More bombs should have been dropped and more people should have been killed."

Harrington wrote that Upshaw claimed his language was, "of a political nature, intended to spur debate and thought, not to create the type of public harm contemplated by the statute."

Harrington disagreed, saying the words, "were plainly intended to incite the crowd to violence, and not simply to express a point of view."

"The talismanic phrase 'freedom of speech' does not cloak all utterances in legality," the judge wrote.

An earlier decision by Ross involved Harvey, who was arrested Oct. 4 near the trade center ruins after he allegedly said the Sept. 11 attacks were revenge for U.S. treatment of Islamic nations.

Dressed in military fatigues and holding a sign with Osama bin Laden's face superimposed over the twin towers, Harvey attracted a lunchtime crowd of about 60 people, some of whom threatened to kill him, police said.

Detective Nemesio Rodriguez, who arrested Harvey, alleged in a court complaint that the defendant essentially stated that, "America is getting paid back for what it's doing to Islamic countries."

In a February decision, Ross said that because of the time and place of the speech, it is reasonable to infer that Harvey knew, "that public inconvenience, annoyance and alarm would result."

New York Civil Liberties Union director Donna Lieberman said Ross' decision should not be allowed to stand. She said police, instead of arresting Harvey, should have protected him from those who were trying to stop him from expressing himself.

First Amendment expert Floyd Abrams said the defendants were expressing "political advocacy, detestable to almost all of us, but protected nonetheless."

"I find disturbing the notion that people can be jailed for reasons that bear on the content of what they are saying," Abrams said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-44 next last

1 posted on 03/31/2002 7:55:03 AM PST by areafiftyone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: areafiftyone
"...Harrington wrote that Upshaw claimed his language was, "of a political nature, intended to spur debate and thought, not to create the type of public harm contemplated by the statute..."

SNORT!


2 posted on 03/31/2002 7:57:27 AM PST by vannrox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: areafiftyone
"Free Speech" ?????

Should this man be protected from his own arrogance and stupidity?

Pretty much the worst kind of "in your face" incitement I've ever seen.

4 posted on 03/31/2002 8:00:38 AM PST by FixitGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

"First Amendment expert Floyd Abrams said the defendants were expressing "political advocacy, detestable to almost all of us, but protected nonetheless." "I find disturbing the notion that people can be jailed for reasons that bear on the content of what they are saying," Abrams said."

Amen.

5 posted on 03/31/2002 8:02:33 AM PST by Jakarta ex-pat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: areafiftyone
Why shouldn't dissedent speech be stopped, after all it is in the tenor of the new tone in DC.

You know that CFR law the shrub signed.

6 posted on 03/31/2002 8:03:39 AM PST by dts32041
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: areafiftyone
What this moron was spouting was political in nature, however, I believe that the police should have allowed the crowd to rip him to shreds. When one practices "unpopular" speech, one should be prepared for the consequences.

Mark

7 posted on 03/31/2002 8:04:47 AM PST by MarkL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jakarta ex-pat
understand your point, but the sonofabitch should have been impaled on some rebar in the rubble nonetheless ...
8 posted on 03/31/2002 8:05:28 AM PST by tomkat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: right_to_defend
"I tend to agree - this speech should have been protected. "

Even so.....If I'd been there I probably would have been arrested for trying to kick his butt!!

9 posted on 03/31/2002 8:05:42 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: right_to_defend
His speech is protected . He had his say , now he can accept the responsibility for having it .
10 posted on 03/31/2002 8:06:18 AM PST by Ben Bolt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: tomkat
oops, forgot ...

[/niceguy]

11 posted on 03/31/2002 8:06:53 AM PST by tomkat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: areafiftyone
Boring trash. A man married to his wife saying a tenth of what these punks said would be paying for a divorce, fair and square. I know some people who lost because they were making harassing comments about other women's breasts to their wives.

Everyone has an inherent oath to this nation. Threatening to break this oath by harassing lives and jurisdictions through threats, veiled or not, are punishable.

What planet are we on to believe we can say, threaten or praise any thing we want, as if we have no oath to break in this nation. And if these people believe the nation broke their oath, then that is fine, let them protest and go to jail. It's transparent, if they are right, we shall know.

If you can't do the time, don't do the provocation.

12 posted on 03/31/2002 8:10:39 AM PST by lavaroise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: tomkat
"understand your point,

but the sonofabitch should have been impaled on some rebar in the rubble nonetheless ..."

101% agree!

14 posted on 03/31/2002 8:14:51 AM PST by Jakarta ex-pat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: areafiftyone
These clowns are always in Times Square screaming their contrarian BS. They've become a fixture during the day claiming that blacks are the
original Jews and that Euro folks have no claim on Judaism.

The WTC subject is ripe for the picking for these guys. They're assholes to the max, but I think they have right to sling this verbal BS.

15 posted on 03/31/2002 8:15:12 AM PST by zarf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jakarta ex-pat
Would my free spreech rights include suggesting that a can of whoop-ass be opened on the moron?
16 posted on 03/31/2002 8:15:17 AM PST by Dakmar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: areafiftyone
I tend to agree with the judges. The police removed the idiots from the areas where they were speaking out to keep them from being killed. The charges were valid. This kind of speech isn't an invitation to debate, it looks more like an attempt at public suicide.

The alternative is to allow idiots like this to incite a crowd into assaulting and killing them. People need to realize that freedom of speech applies to political dissent used for keeping the government answerable to us. Freedom of speech is the term which we use to say that we have the right to criticise our government. It doesn't give us carte blanche to make any kind of inflammatory statement we like and be shielded from responsibility for the reaction of others to what we say.

I wonder if these two idiots are disappointed that the crowds they addressed didn't assault them.

17 posted on 03/31/2002 8:16:43 AM PST by Twodees
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dorben
HEHE..and I would have been happy to help ya!!!!!!!!!
18 posted on 03/31/2002 8:19:29 AM PST by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Twodees
BTT for judges with sense.!!!!!!
19 posted on 03/31/2002 8:20:08 AM PST by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: right_to_defend
I tend to agree - this speech should have been protected.

I'm not a Constitutional lawyer but it seems to me, IMHO, that applauding and actually encouraging more acts of war against the United States of America meets the U.S. Constitution's definition of treason in "giving aid and comfort to the enemy".

20 posted on 03/31/2002 8:21:44 AM PST by Polybius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-44 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson