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I’d really like to add something, but I want to think about it some more so that what I write is well thought out and expressed.

But if I don’t L, thanks for the ping.

Hey Freedom,

This was an excellent discussion, and I finally read both Luther and Erasmus's contribution to the debate.

As noted by one of their translators: Luther brought a blunderbuss while Erasmus brought a rapier. Luther won, but not without leaving an enigma, and a turgid one at that. But, his child-like and sweet side can be found in his gratitude for, and comfort in, the blood of Christ and the grace of God. He was brave.

I became a different person in 2007 than I had been in 2006. And now I'm quite different from the person I was in either of those years. Time marches on.

Your profile page is so full!

It's nice to be re-called, so thanks for the friendliness.

I love you, my brother.

The Peace of the Lord, which passeth all understanding be with you and all those whom you love.

Hi L,

As always, thanks for the ping. I don't have anything of substance to add, but I don't want to let this opportunity pass without passing along some good news.

Here in Rochester there is a Lutheran church downtown. It's ECLA and healthy, i.e. right thinking, from what I can observe. The priest is an energetic man and the vitality of the congregation is palpable. During the winter months they have a liturgy in German.

There is hope, L, so do fight the good fight, but don't lose hope. With Jesus all things are possible, and sometimes when I pray I recognize the paltry quality of my faith by the absence of joy and true reliance.

Remember, a revolution often makes the most noise just before it expires.

Very nice, Pastor, and thanks for the ping.

But the yoke of obedience has been laid upon our shoulders and in doing so we have been called to bear both the reality of the cross and the promise of the resurrection.

Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
(St. Matthew 11)

To see Thee more clearly.
To love Thee more dearly.
To follow Thee more nearly.

That's enough to bring tears to my eyes, L. Thank you.

Simbolo Della Fede

Le porte, le porte! In sapienza stiamo intenti!

Credo in un unico Dio, Padre, onnipotente, Creatore del cielo e della terra, e di tutte le realtà sia visibili che invisibili.

E un unico Signore: Gesù Cristo, il Figlio di Dio, l'unigenito, il generato dal Padre prima di tutti i secoli. Luce da Luce; Dio vero da Dio vero; generato, non creato; coessenziale al Padre; mediante cui tutte le realtà presero esistenza.

Che per noi uomini e per la nostra salvezza discese dai cieli e si incarnò dallo Spirito santo e dalla Vergine Maria, e si fece uomo.

E fu crocifisso per noi sotto Ponzio Pilato, e soffrì, e fu sepolto.

E risuscitò il terzo giorno, secondo le Scritture.

E risalì ai cieli e siede alla destra del Padre.

E di nuovo verrà con gloria a giudicare i vivi e i morti; il cui regno non avrà fine.

E nello Spirito, che è santo, Signore, vivifico, procede dal Padre, insieme con il Padre e con il Figlio è adorato e glorificato, parlò per mezzo dei Profeti.

E nell'unica, santa, cattolica e apostolica Chiesa.

Confesso un unico Battesimo per la remissione dei peccati.

Aspetto la risurrezione dei morti.

E la vita del secolo venturo.

Amen.

Thanks for the ping, L. Cranach's work is beautiful. My only lament, lacking the least intent of slighting my German brothers and sisters, is that he's not Italian.

What follows is prayer from the Grand Collect from Divine Liturgies of Santi Giovanni il Crisostomo and Basilio il Grande. I'd translate, but I don't think I need to for you, and with just a little effort it can be understood by all.

Il Signore is how Italians refer to Our Lord. It is at once an elevated yet democratic title; for one addresses both one's Patron and the poorest of the poor with the same signification.

What follows after the brief prayers is The Creed, which I will post separately.

I ask you, L, is there a more beautiful language than Italian?

In pace preghiamo il Signore.

Signore, Dio nostro, il tuo potere è incomparabile e la tua gloria inconcepibile; la tua misericordia è immensa e il tuo amore per gli uomini ineffabile: Tu proprio, Sovrano, secondo la tua benignità, guarda su di noi e su questo santo tempio e tra di noi e tra quanti pregano con noi rendi copiose le tue misericordie e le tue indulgenze.

Poiché è a Te che spetta ogni gloria, onore e adorazione: Padre, e Figlio e santo Spirito, ora e sempre, e nei secoli dei secoli.

Amen.

Hi L,

Thanks for the ping and God bless.

Thanks for the ping, Dr. E.

Don’t have much to add, just that I’m not surprised to read this from Tony Snow. He exuded the Grace of God so many times when he interviewed both friend and ‘foe’ alike.

May he continue to feel the embrace of the Good Shepherd, every day of his life.

R, thanks for keeping me in your thoughts. I appreciate it.

The best to you, and to you too, Tax-chick.

Hi L. Blessed Independence Day to you too.

I’m sitting here writing to you in the peace of my little apartment, wages paid while at leisure and not at work. I’m having an excellent cappuccino. Wish I could make one for you and the rest of the posters on this thread. I think when I retire, the Lord Willing, I’ll buy a good commercial espresso machine, German or Italian made, and set up shop in a nook of an office building that caters to lawyers. I’ve this vision of my little triangular nook, replete with two sturdy mannequins, more like sturdy cut-outs, with little bubble dialogues hovering above their heads. I’d change the dialogue every few days. What do you think?

Let’s say it’s the 3rd of July, 2021.…

My female cardboard cut-out, let’s call her Sara. My male cut-out who looks like you would imagine St. Joseph to look, let’s call him Abraham, though, to those who knew him way back when he remains Abram.

Elizabeth says to Abraham, what do you suppose the basest of vices is? Abraham replies: how can you even ask that, Sara? But since you do, ingratitude!

My prayer today, L is that Our Lord remind us of the copious bloodshed of our young men throughout the life of our Country who died on the battlefield so miserably far away from hearth and home. I know I’ve heard the Italian terra whisper where they fell, thank you for liberating and never occupying.

That Our Lord remind us of the awful price we paid in our Civil War. That he remind us that we demanded our Black brothers lay down their lives for us in our wars of the twentieth century, and then we made them walk on opposite sides of the street from us.

That our Lord prepare us and convince us that we must tap into that which makes us capable of both great sin and great accomplishment, if we are called again to remove the boot of tyranny from the throat of those, who for whatever reason, cannot do it for themselves. And, to finally ask Our Lord for the forbearance towards those who following rescue inevitably despise their benefactors because they are a constant and sore reminder of their ignominy and their debt.

L, don’t know if you remember the UN talks following 9-11, but the Polish delegate (can’t remember his title) said that during the occupation of the USSR, the notion aphoristically advanced was that the way to acquire freedom was to attack the United States and force an occupation. I wonder if there were countries during the Roman Empire who harbored the same idea?

I have a deep and abiding love for the Founding Fathers. I see their flaws, they may have even told us a 'Noble Lie', but they are without historical equal, in my view.

Benjamin Franklin said that he who would bring primitive Christianity to bear (read: the Sermon on the Mount or the blueprint for living it, 1 Cor. 13) would change the face of the world. For our Fathers who did not confess Christ, let us pray for the Extraordinary Grace of God, which I'm quite sure He takes pleasure in extending. I've always bristled at the phrase, 'God's good pleasure' it always seemed too human for me, but maybe I'm wrong. Our Fathers are also Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. Here's a short 'Preaching Letter' from TR ((1858–1919) to his kids:

A PREACHING LETTER White House, Oct. 2, 1903.

DEAR KERMIT:

I was very glad to get your letter. Am glad you are playing football. I should be very sorry to see either you or Ted devoting most of your attention to athletics, and I haven't got any special ambition to see you shine overmuch in athletics at college, at least (if you go there), because I think it tends to take up too much time; but I do like to feel that you are manly and able to hold your own in rough, hardy sports. I would rather have a boy of mine stand high in his studies than high in athletics, but I could a great deal rather have him show true manliness of character than show either intellectual or physical prowess; and I believe you and Ted both bid fair to develop just such character.

There! you will think this a dreadfully preaching letter! I suppose I have a natural tendency to preach just at present because I am overwhelmed with my work. I enjoy being President, and I like to do the work and have my hand on the lever. But it is very worrying and puzzling, and I have to make up my mind to accept every kind of attack and misrepresentation. It is a great comfort to me to read the life and letters of Abraham Lincoln. I am more and more impressed every day, not only with the man's wonderful power and sagacity, but with his literally endless patience, and at the same time his unflinching resolution.

FK, ping per our previous posts on the Nativity thread, and an update for you.

Based on Garibaldi's abilities as warrior and General, President Lincoln wanted to put Garibaldi in charge of one of the Union regiments, if regiment is the proper term. However, Garibaldi declined because he thought the Emancipation of slaves was moving too slowly.

America, that's a good Italian name, don't you think? Viva l'America, FK, finche il mondo non e piu!

...knowing something as important as the way I feel about Mary.

Isn't this a great picture? Look at the baby's face. So sweet, so innocent.

Go, I thought you might like the following. Czeslaw Milosz wrote it.

Undoubtedly, the hope of Salvation has paled and now it is so weakened that no images are associated with it. Therefore, even when you tell yourself, "If you want to save your soul, you should renounce things which are the most precious to you, your creative work, a romance, power or other satisfactions of your ambitions," it is so hard to accomplish this. Once, when Salvation signified a palm in Heaven, and damnation, eternal tortures in the abysses of Hell, people, it seems, had a stronger incitement to search for saintliness and to temper their gluttonous appetites. Not at all. They killed, committed adultery, grabbed the land of their neighbor, and were avid for fame. Something is wrong here. The tangible presence of Paradise, as promised to the Islamic faithful who fell in battle against the infidel, may increase their fervor in combat, but, in general, life on earth and the idea of Salvation seem to belong to two different orders, hardly connected.

It is not improbable that Martin Luther guessed this when he made Salvation dependent not upon acts but upon Grace.

Now, a little more connected to the topic of the thread...

Diarmaid MacCulloch wrote a History of the Reformation just a couple of years ago. He's more gentle when describing Catholic defects and you can see by the phrases he uses, who he has the better opinion of. For instance, he refers to Calvin as 'buttoned' up. Right from the get go, I could see that his sympathies were not solidly in the Reformers camp. Not that they should be either, and, in my view, he managed to keep that from becoming a problem.

The period that Martin Luther lived in may not have been a let's see your smile era, but the people, I think, did have a sarcastic side or pretty developed sense of humor, however you would prefer to describe based on excerpt below.

Lurking in a little English country church, at Preston Bissett in Buckinghamshire, is an object lesson in the difficulty of understanding the religious outlook of past generations. Holding up the arch at the entrance to the chancel, the most sacred part of the church building, are two carved stone figures, sculpted sometime in the early 14th century. The figure on the north side, crouched on all fours under the weight of the arch, is displaying his ample buttocks towards the high altar, the place where, day by day before the Reformation, the priest of Preston presided at the Mass, transforming breand and wine into the flesh and blood of the crucified Christ. Some later vandal has knocked the head off the carving, as with countless other carvings in Protestant Europe, but the buttocks are unscathed (see Plate 1A) [Me: the plate shows an enormous backside.)

It is easier to understand a Protestant sparing the buttocks -which would admirable convey what he or she thought of the miracle of the Mass- than to understand why they were carved in the first place.

Preston Bissett's priest could hardly have avoided staring at them as he blessed the people at the end of the Mass, before processing down the altar steps and out through the wooden screen which filled the chancel arch and hid the sculpture from his parishoners' eyes....Did the carving express the impatience which many devout people felt with their clergy when they did not perform their sacred task to public satisfaction? Was it meant to be a warning to a lazy or incompetent priest, or was it a private joke? Was it a symbol of Satan who sought to destroy the Church's proclamation of good news at God's altar?

Otherwise the meaning of the figure is now irrecoverable from a belief system where the physical and the spiritual were much more intimately, unexpectedly and exuberantly fused than they became in the Reformation and Counter-Reformation.

I think he also noted in the book that there were two sets of Commandments making the rounds at the time. Tried to find exact excerpt, but couldn't.

Finally, I think that our image of Luther in some measure at least is based on book titled Table Talk that is supposed to be a record of what Luther said. And, for what it's worth, Owen Chadwick, another very well-reputed historian of the Reformation wrote the following in The Reformation

The characteristic memory of Luther is of a man presiding at his own table, with his colleagues and friends around, arguing with him, or listening to his divinity, his politics and his humour. One of the friends shamefacedly took out a notebook and began to jot down Luther's remarks. The habit spread, and twelve different reporters made collections. Luther sometimes mocked nut neither resented nor forbade these deferential scribes. Twenty years after his death, one of them, Aurifaber, published a collection from a variety of collections . Thenceforth Luther's Table Talk became a classic of the Reformation. Rude and outspoken he might often be; 'Dear husband', said Catherine, 'you are too rude'. 'They teach me to be rude" replied Luther. He was so outspoken that his enemies leaped to make capital out of the Table Talk. It is unreliable as a source for details of history, particularly when the events occured many years before the date of the reported conversation; and Aurifaber's text was not untouched by improvement or interpolation. But it is a unique and authentic picture of a man and a divine; he who would understand Luther's person and mind cannot neglect it. It is impossible to apply any epithet to him less than the old classical epithet magnanimous, in its original sense of great-hearted.

"Grace is free, but it will cost you your life."

"...what is nearest to God is precisely the need of one's neighbor"

Bonhoeffer

Less prattle and more essay:

Of course, his uprightness, courage and firmness were duly appreciated by the enemies of the Church ruling over Russia and for a certain period be was kept in jail awaiting a trial, while the sentence of a death penalty was already announced by the soviet press. But at that time, the soviet government was not strong enough to dictate its orders to other countries, as it does now, so the interference of the USA, where the Holy Patriarch had spent five years as Archbishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, and the famous memorandum of Curson, put an end to the imprisonment of the Patriarch.

After many months spent in prison, he was released, and immediately resumed his duties. But release from prison did not end his martyrdom, and did not mean that be was not subjected to close surveillance, most painful restrictions, and continual interrogatories by Tcheka. His relations not only with the outer world, but with his bishops, were complicated to such a degree that often he could not obtain full and true information about some event, although his decisions or instructions on the subject were greatly required. This sometimes led to misunderstand ings which were gladly seized upon by his enemies. The constant pressure of the Tcheka on his mind was a severe added burden to his troubles. One can only wonder at his endurance.

Being inspired is a lot like falling in love. I wonder if it's the same for married people? They seem to have forgotten what's it's like to be inspired by their bride or their husband. They seem spent, or worse, ironic. Lord save us single people from the abusing pall of the ironic couple.

I found this piece on the Noble Patriarch because of the mention he gets in this piece which sent the G/P shivers down my red, white and blue, spine