Posted on 12/01/2002 2:33:40 PM PST by fishtank
My question: if God can do this, then we should be bold to pray for other groups like the LDS, JWs, etc.
He is a miracle-worker!!!
Here's a couple of my favorite quotes from the article:
"Many members, after struggling to understand the doctrinal change, began to experience a new sense of peace and joy through a renewed faith in Jesus Christ. Their identity was in him, not in the particular laws they kept."
"In March 1996, Joe Tkach wrote an editorial in The Plain Truth apologizing to members and all who have been hurt by the church's erroneous teachings and practices. He asked for forgiveness and cooperation."
"We acknowledge that many of our doctrines were erroneous."
Great examples of regeneration, confession and restoration through Jesus Christ! Thanks for posting this!
I am impressed with their sincerity in admitting that it really IS a struggle for some of them to come to grips with a radical doctrinal change. But, praise God, He is showing them the joy He brings through a personal relationship with him and through the worship experience.
And how exciting for you to know some of them personally! What a great opportunity you have!
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 ¶For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Translations of Qur'anic Verses by Abdullah Yusuf Ali:
Say: "Praise be to Allah Who begets no son and has no partner in (His) dominion: nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: Yea magnify Him for His greatness and glory!" 17: 111
Further that He may warn those (also) who say "Allah hath begotten a son": 18: 4
It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is. 19: 35
They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! 19: 88/89
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. 19: 92
No son did Allah beget nor is there any god along with Him: (if there were many gods) behold each god would have taken away what he had created and some would have lorded it over others! Glory to Allah (He is free) from the (sort of) things they attribute to Him! 23: 91
He begetteth not nor is He begotten; 112: 3
This past weekend my brother was down from Texas. He’s considered him self out of it for almost as long as I have, except he still dabbles in it from time to time and will attend Garner Ted’s services now and then, or will call some of the spin offs and question them as to their belief and then hang up on them or they hang up on him, because they are either too much like Herbert’s Church, or not enough hike it.
Discussing religion with him was difficult, since he has no real belief. All he has are bits and pieces of doctrine and he knows when you say something he doesn’t agree with, but he had no firm beliefs himself.
To our surprise his wife asked if they could go to our church with us Sunday, and I was thrilled, but he sat like a piece of wood through the whole service, with that look of, “I fully disagree, but will keep my mouth shut for now.”
After breakfast we took then to lunch as they were leaving from there, and heading back to Texas, and neither of us mentioned the sermon, but he did remark how friendly everyone was. I remembered the first time I went to a regular Church after I left the WWCG, I thought they were all faking it, and only the members of the WWCG were completely sincere. :-)
I know 6 people besides my self who left that Church, and they are all walking scars and misfits in society. They can't let go of the past, they can’t grasp a new future, and they vacillates back and forth in their own convictions and aren’t happy with any other belief or with their own.
Most of them are socially and spiritually dysfunctional, and seem to believe it’s their oddness that sets them apart as still a godly people.
I felt so sorry for them, but I also realize that if 90% of everyone I knew in that Church is damaged goods, think of all the thousands that I don’t know that are also dysfuntional.
Please pray for them.
JH
Before I begin let me say that I became a baptized member of United Church of God last January.
United was formed by dozens of ministers from the World Wide Church of God when that organization changed key beliefs. It is the largest of the groups of people that have left WWCG.
Most of the membership, or at least in our local congregation, is made up of former WWCG people.
We hold much but not all of the same doctrine that was taught in the old WWCG.
I do not belong to a "cult". You're free to level that charge (many have) but it won't stick. There is nothing hidden or secret about the organization. Everything you ever wanted to know is available at the link above or at Good News Magazine
With that out of the way let me say that there are a number of inaccuracies in the story. I hope one would recognize that this story is slanted toward the viewpoint of the "new" WorldWide. You'll find a much different assessment from members who belonged to the church before the doctinal changes broke the church apart.
The article subtly implies that all of the doctrine taught was fraudlent seemingly because Armstrong "had no seminary training, nor any disciplined study of church history, biblical interpretation, or the original languages of Scripture". Using this criteria I would venture to guess that none of us on this forum are "qualified" to determine sound doctrine based on scripture.
The article also says Armstrong built his doctrine upon these three points:
Three doctrines were instrumental in Armstrong's conversion: 1) That God is the Creator, 2) That the Bible is true, and 3) That the Bible does not change the Sabbath to Sunday. Armstrong was guided to this third doctrine by a member of the Church of God (Seventh Day), a small group that has some similarities to the Seventh-day Adventists.
Would anyone disagree with points 1 or 2? Doubtful. That leaves point 3 as a point in contention. Notice how the article tries to marginalize the truth of the statement by implying that it came from some other group and not the bible.
Let me challenge anybody here: Without using Christian tradition, prove to me that the bible changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, or barring that, prove to me that God did away with the 7th day sabbath. Or barring that, prove to me that Christ's death did away with the 7th day sabbath.
Thanks...looking forward to the discourse.
Sorry, was a little off in my numbers on the amount of people that left to form United...
Thanks. What else qualifies? One man authoritarian rule?
BTW, I believe the sabbath is Saturday not Sunday. We worship on the Lord's Day, the day of His resurrection - the first day of the week.
Thanks. Would you say that you do this due to Christian tradition? If not, can you show me where it says to honor Christ's resurrection by worshipping on Sunday?
Also, I assume that you acknowledge that Armstongs beliefs in all three of these points were correct?:
Three doctrines were instrumental in Armstrong's conversion: 1) That God is the Creator, 2) That the Bible is true, and 3) That the Bible does not change the Sabbath to Sunday.
Also from the article:
Armstrong was eager to obey God, and he saw in Scripture that God commanded his people to keep the seventh day as a Sabbath. Although most Christians do not keep the seventh day, no one was able to prove to Armstrong that God ever authorized his people to change or ignore this commandment.
Can you prove from scripture, not tradition, that Armstrong was wrong about the above?
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