Posted on 08/07/2002 9:26:57 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
I should probably not reply to this publickly, but, nobody will believe this anyway. Your 'ideal world' is quite real. First consider the price tag for a military action against Iraq. Give me 30 milliion dollars, in 24 hours, you can write Saddams obit. ... It's also why I know this entire military thing is political.
Hank
See 42, 20, and 15.
(We Calvinists attract some weird religionists to argue with us, don't we?)
Oh, please. What he said had been cut and pasted in responses to him by several posters. All you have to do is continue reading that thread to see.
There was nothing "inappropriate" about me bringing this up here, especially since he so cavalierly threw out the term "arrogant" about Calvinists. That post on the thred in question is the epitome of being inappropriate, especially from one who is supposedly a Believer.
You sure picked one heck of a way to prove your "point." Openly wishing for others' children to die in defense of this nation? That's really amazing.
Apparently, you did wish just that. You said it. They were and are YOUR words, and belong to none other than you.
OK. You win. Die, all of you, you, your children, your ideas, whatever you want, die, die, die!
By the way. My wish will certainly come true. We all die.
I just "WISH" that until you do, you, and yours enjoy your life, and for a long time, and that none have to die in some foreign country for the political advancemnt of some American president.
There are several articles out in cyberspace that dealt with this subject. Hugh Ross tends to state the case better, but I don't think anyone had a better title than this one.
Tell me, RW, we are all in agreement that God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent. But would you agree that God is Omnitemporal-- capable of existing in all times simultaneously. If so, then what, if any, are the theological implications?
This seems to be pretty bizarre to me. What I think you just said was that the inhabitants of Tyre and Sidon and Sodom would have been more impressionable and receptive to Christ's gospel than Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum were, but that God seemingly decided ahead of time that the inhabitants of all six cities were purposely set up and chosen by God ahead of time so that He could damn the maximum number of people possible.
You would think that a merciful God would have at least set things up so that three out of the six cities inhabitants could have been saved, but I guess God really isn't all that merciful. Damning people to hell must really be a lot more fun for God than I had imagined.
I think I'll frame YOUR post.
God is merciful to save any of Adam's race. He would be entirely Just to damn every single human in history -- including the inhabitants of all six of these cities.
And so...
Yes, that's what Jesus did indeed day...
God Incarnate specifically stated that, if He had chosen to Grace the cities of Tyre, Sidon, and Sodom with equivalent Miracles to those which He performed in Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum, the former three cities would have responded by Repenting unto Salvation.
God chose not to do so -- Predestinating these cities to Hell, instead.
***Romans 9: 15 - 24 -- For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstarte my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth. So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
You will say to me then, Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will? On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, Why did you make me like this, will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory -- even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
If true, it annihilates any possibility of a Synergist Theological Construct -- obviously. This is basic Freshman Logic... pity that Jack Carter hasn't yet reached that level.
See my #13...
Well... duh.
And what is more, Jack -- if God is Omnitemporally cognizant of all possible Timestreams (including every foreordained/foreknown interaction of Providence and Will therein) and the ultimate Results thereof, and God chooses which One of an infinite number of omnitemporally foreknown Timestreams will actually be the One which He will Create... then God's knowledge of the future can only be seen as Total Sovereign Control from all eternity past.
A point which I have illustrated time and again:
"The Epistomological Impact" of an Omnitemporal Foreknowledge enjoyed by God prior to Creation has the unavoidable effect of rendering any sort of synergistic metaphysical construct absolutely impossible, and of rendering Absolute Monergistic Predestination the only possible Rational and Sane Theology.
Arminianism/Synergism could survive in an environment where God's foreknowledge was limited to our Timestream; at least they could claim that God simply foreknew our free choices and that His Plan is therefore conditioned on those foreknown Choices. But in an Omnitemporal Foreknowledge environment, Man's Choices are the purely-dependent consequent results of God's precedent Decisions -- If God decides that He will ordain to perform miracles in Sodom, then Sodom will choose to Repent when the Time comes; and if He decides that He will NOT ordain to perform miracles, then they will choose to NOT repent. Their decisions have, therefore, already been predestined for them before they are ever born, by God's determinative Election of just which Omnitemporally Foreknown time-stream He is going to Create.
Ergo, Omnitemporal Foreknowledge enjoyed prior to Creation has the unavoidable effect of rendering Absolute Monergistic Predestination the only possible Rational and Sane Theology. As I said before... duh.
Sheesh -- Jack Carter did not realize this logically-obvious impact of Omnitemporal Foreknowledge against any possible synergistic construct?
And he's a doctoral student??
(Do you think that any of his Professors know??)
Case closed.
A wise answer indeed. I think all of us on these threads would be better off if we chose that as our answer more often.
Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
| Cubicle Guy ... Counselor to God |
"And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.Seems like infernal bloviators such as yourself have ALWAYS had a hard time with the truth, drstevej."Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
"Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy."
You obviously have me confused with someone else. ;-)
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