I've reviewed your statement and your number was 66%. Of course, you failed to substantiate that number, but I've come to expect these kind of unsubstantiated "facts" from you and your "friend."
You wrote:
As I've posted on other threads, I've seen at least one survey that records the level of belief in the Real Presence at about 1/3 of self-identified Catholics. I've seen at least a couple of other studies which report levels of about double that. Looking at methodologies, I prefer the latter studies.
Post #161
(btw: You and your little "friend" seem to be like two peas in a pod in this linked thread also. Maybe that bond between the two of you is stronger than I first suspected. ;-)
You continue:
You demonstrated lack of knowledge about polling, among other topics, with your discussion of the results of that poll. But in any event, it is you who cited it, not me.
Anyone who can read these posts knows that you are likely immune to any reason concerning this.
Talk is cheap, sitetest, especially when it comes from liberals. Post your facts or stuff a sock in it.;-)
You clearly will not be interested in facts, but I will repost this material for those who can read these posts knows that you are likely immune to any reason concerning this.
When I saw your reference, I first thought that Cardinal Hickey must be wrong. After all, he stated that only 33% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence and the poll done by Catholic World Report found that the number is actually 82%. How could the Cardinal be so misinformed, I thought.
Well, the answer is that regarding this issue, he's not misinformed at all. From internet sources alone, I found three separate polls done over the past 10 years that have delt with the question of whether or not Catholics truly believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The first study done by Gallop starting in December 1991 to January 1992, showed that only 30% of the Catholic respondants did believe in the Real Presence. The second study done in 1994 by CBS and the NYT also showed that about 33% of Cathollics believed in the Real Presence. The last poll done by the Catholic World Report is the one that you referenced and in that study 82% of the Catholics said they believed "strongly or mildly" (I am not sure what a "mild" belief means but there is a reference to follow that sheds some light) in the real presence. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be an online list of the actual questions that were asked on any of these three different polls.
Why such a discrepancy? As we know, how a question is framed can make a huge difference in the answers of those being polled. Indeed, why did not only Cardinal Hickey refer to the 33% figure but also Bishop Weigand, Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, Fr. George Rutler and others.
Relevant quotes and their sources follow:
These results, said Bishop Weigand, "are terribly alarming because only the first formulation is orthodox Catholic doctrine. The others are all variations of the 16th century Protestant teachings from Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and others. We have every reason to ponder how this most central teaching of our Catholic faith got so watered down and distorted over the past 25 years". {72} This loss of faith in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist by U.S. Catholics was further borne out by a Spring 1994 New York Times/CBS poll which showed that 70% of Catholics in the 18-44 age group think that at Mass the bread and wine serve only as mere "symbolic reminders" of Jesus rather than being changed into his Body and Blood.
Source I
It’s hard to imagine that any Catholic could misunderstand the central doctrine of his faith. However, according to an alarming 1992 Gallup poll, the majority of Catholics are confused in their beliefs about Christ’s presence in the Eucharist:
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30% believe they are really and truly receiving the body, blood, |
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29% believe they are receiving bread and wine that symbolize the |
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10% believe they receive bread and wine in which Jesus is also |
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24% believe they are receiving what has become Christ’s body |
Any well-informed Catholic will recognize that only the first option, chosen by the 30 percent, represents true Catholic teaching. The other options represent various Protestant beliefs. In other words, nearly 70 percent of all Catholics in this country hold erroneous beliefs about Christ's presence in the Eucharist.
The problem increases dramatically among younger Catholics. According to a more recent New York Times and CBS poll of Catholics who attend Mass regularly, the number of Catholics who accept the Real Presence decreases as age decreases:
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Age 65 and over: 51% believe in the Real Presence. |
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Age 45–64: 37% believe in Real Presence. |
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Age 30–44: 28% believe in Real Presence. |
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Age 18–29: 17% believe in Real Presence. |
ages/lastsupper.jpg"> 70% of this last age group (18–29) believe that the Eucharist is just a symbol. What does this say about how we are passing the faith on to our children? Only one teenager in six accepts the fundamental doctrine of the Real Presence! This loss of faith among young and old alike explains the tremendous lack of devotion, reverence, and appreciation so many Catholics show towards Holy Communion.
Source II
A recent poll by The New York Times and CBS News found that 70 percent of American Catholics aged 18 to 44 believe that the bread and wine in the Eucharist are only "symbolic reminders" of Christ rather than "changed into the body and blood of Christ." For this reason, philosopher Germain Grisez and Russell Shaw claimed, in the Homiletic and Pastoral Review, that the eucharistic faith of American Catholics "has not simply grown dim but, seemingly, been extinguished." The appearance of this video tape by Fr. George Rutler is particularly timely, therefore. Fr. Rutler, a convert from Anglicanism, is intimately familiar with the centuries-old disputes over the Eucharist and such issues as the Real Presence.
This series is drawn from television shows broadcast on Mother Angelica’s Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN). Fr. Rutler explains what is meant by the concept of worship and how the Mass is the preeminent act of worship. He also shows how current misunderstandings of the Mass grow out of wider cultural and philosophical rebellions. Despite a fundamental human need to find and worship God, human beings have, through the millenia, often chosen to worship themselves instead.
Source III
Source IV
In 1993, The New York Times commissioned a poll and found that more U.S. Catholics believed the Mass to contain "symbolic reminders" of Christ's presence, rather than his real presence. The poll occasioned a lot of hand-wringing and "I told you sos" among Catholics.
In 1996, a national U.S. Catholic publication asked a similar question on another scientific survey. The result was the exact opposite -- the vast majority of Catholics do believe Christ is really present in the Eucharist.
What are we to make of this? Was one of the surveys flawed? Did a lot of religious education occur in the intervening three years to overcome this major gap in Catholics' knowledge about the Eucharist?
My suspicion is that a sizeable number of Catholics have no idea what they believe or what the church teaches on this basic tenet of the faith. A slight change in the phrasing of the question about the nature of the Eucharist may well evoke a different response if people are trying to guess "the right answer."
Source V
According to a 1994 New York Times/CBS poll cited by Germain Grisez and Russell Shaw in Homiletic & Pastoral Review, a good 45% -- nearly half of even the oldest age-group among American Catholics ( those aged 65 years or more ) now hold a more or less .protestant view of the Eucharist, thinking, that the consecrated Host is a mere "symbolic reminder" of Jesus.
Among those a little younger ( aged 45-64 ) this "protestantized" group increases to 58%; and among the youngest age-group ( 18-44 years ) -- that is, those Catholics who were still children or not yet born when the liturgical changes began -- holding this heretical view shoots up to 70%.
In other words, disbelief in the Real Presence among professing Catholics in the United States increases in direct proportion to the proportion of their own lifetime in which the Eucharist has been celebrated with the new post-conciliar Missal.
According to the same survey, we have the point where even the majority ( 51% ) of the most regularly practicing Catholics -- those who say they attend Mass every Sunday -- expressed the protestantized "symbolic-reminder" view of this most Holy Mystery.
A pleasant good evening, sitetest. ;-) ;-) ;-)