Vatican Says Jews' Wait For Messiah Is Validated by Old Testament

International New York Times ^

[malakhi]

And I thought you might have some positive scriptural defense for that view...I simply had hoped to learn from it.

There is an interesting passage in Isaiah, but given the context I don't believe it is messianic:

He will not fail or be discouraged
till he has established justice in the earth; (Isaiah 42:4)

[saradippity]

Is we,or,is we not talking about your post #29876 on the Neverending thread?

[saradippity]

Is we,or,is we not talking about your post #29876 on the Neverending thread?

[Catholicguy]

Are you foaming at the mouth? Better wipe the spittle off your monitor. Your ranting is beginning to make me question your sanity.

No, I'm not foaming at the mouth. There is no spittle on my monitor. You judge Jesus as not being Divine so your questioning my sanity is itself questionable.

[Catholicguy]

If you are going to try to push your beliefs on me

I was responding to the article. You inserted yourself into the arguement for reasons known only to yourself. Defending the truth is not the same as "push your beliefs on me." That is an absurd comment.

You abandoned Catholicism for Judaism and now you want to instruct me on how properly to be a Christian? Look, I don't tell you how to act as a Jew, so....

[Woodkirk]

Isn't Daniel 9:24-26 part of the Hebrew Scriptures and a Messianic Prophecy? Don't those verses provide the clearest information regarding the time when the Messiah would come to Israel and enter Jerusalem?

When was the commandment given to restore and rebuild Jerusalem after the Babylonian captivity? 445 BC?

When was the wall around the city completed? 396 BC?

According to the math, adjusted for a 360 day year, the Messiah would have had to enter Jerusalem circa 31 AD. Who would that have been? If not Jesus, then who?

How do Jews or anybody circumvent this Messianic prophecy?

[Catholicguy]

You sure do like CAPITAL LETTERS, don't you?

I USE THEM TO DENOTE ANGER OR EMPHASIS

[Catholicguy]

It means they were out to lunch the last time He came and missed Him and wouldn't believe that He'd ever been there so they're waiting for the next time He comes, which will be the first time as far as they are concerned.

LOL

[Catholicguy]

No doubt that's what the Jews thought when the early church came up with Jesus was equal to God, and part of a trinity.

The early church was comprised of many Jews. The Apostles etc. The Trinity is Divine Revelation, the nascent Catholic Church did not "come up with" it.

[Catholicguy]

LOL! Catholicguy ticked me off; don't mess with me.

I sense any Catholic not cowed by your mewling, finger-pointing, whining and complaining about defense of the truth would tick you off.

I have found that to be the case with any vigorous, uncompromising defense of Christianity. There are always those that take personal umbrage at objective defenses of the truth and demand that the defended cease his defense.

Truth divides. It is that simple.

[Catholicguy]

What is this stuff? Of course Catholics have been beaten up, too, but not by the Jews. Probably no country in the world suffered more from misrule than Catholic Ireland did. Please give me one case in which Catholics were maltreated by Jewish rulers at least to that extent

I think we are talking at cross purposes. My objections to your posts have been based upon the use of the editorial "we." I reject collective guilt. Catholics do not impute guilt for Deicide to Jews collectively; similarly, Christians are not collectively guilty for the malign and evil treatment of Jews, or Protestants.

When the Pope apologised, he was criticised for singling out some Christians who acted sinfully and not condemning Christians collectively. I don't see why your appraoch mnakes more sense than does the Pope's

[malakhi]

You judge Jesus as not being Divine so your questioning my sanity is itself questionable.

You are welcome to your opinion.

[malakhi]

You inserted yourself into the arguement for reasons known only to yourself.

Its no secret. I found your demeanor offensive.

[malakhi]

How do Jews or anybody circumvent this Messianic prophecy?

It is not a messianic prophecy. We "circumvent" it by interpreting it correctly.

[Woodkirk]

Just remember that Rome had its part in the Crucifixion as well. It was, after all, a Roman governor who affixed the sentence, Roman hands that wielded the hammer, a Roman spear that pierced the side. And amazingly today across the globe Roman priests through "the Mass" mystically perform this sacrifice of the Son of God all over again and again, calling it a "celebration" , as if the 32 AD sacrifice was not good enough. Rome has more than its fair share of blood on its hands.

[malakhi]

I sense any Catholic not cowed by your mewling, finger-pointing, whining and complaining about defense of the truth would tick you off.

As far as I can tell, the only "mewling, finger-pointing, whining and complaining" on this thread is coming from you.

I have found that to be the case with any vigorous, uncompromising defense of Christianity. There are always those that take personal umbrage at objective defenses of the truth and demand that the defended cease his defense. Truth divides. It is that simple.

Your assertion that what you believe to be true is "the Truth" does not make it so. If my saying that offends you, tough. Surely you could not be offended by "any vigorous, uncompromising defense of" Judaism? Surely you would not take "personal umbrage at objective defenses of the truth"?

[malakhi]

I reject collective guilt.

You have abandoned the doctrine of original sin?

[Aquinasfan]

Dr. Navarro- Valls said... "It means it would be wrong for a Catholic to wait for the Messiah, but not for a Jew," he said.

I am going to have to consume MASSIVE AMOUNTS of wine, marijuana and cocaine before THAT statement even begins to make sense.

I think it's a simple logical statement. Since Jews don't believe that Jesus was/is the Messiah, naturally they're still waiting. Not that I've read the document...

[malakhi]

Has ANY RABBI, in the HISTORY of the WORLD APOLOGISED for the HATE LITERATURE ABOUT OUR SAVIOUR AND HIS MOTHER THAT CONSTITUTED PARTS OF THE TALMUD?

By the way, would you be willing to document for me the alleged slurs against Mary and Jesus found in the Talmud? Surely you would not make this accusation without having the evidence to back it up.