[daniel1212]

Me: All very true, but in no way in conflict with anything I wrote. You: It [is] you who did not negate my argument. Me: Let me try again. You successfully argue that there is a mystical meaning to what Jesus said. But God usually gives a physical sign to correlate to the mystical. This is the very meaning of “sacrament”: Something that is made holy by being a sign of something that is mystical.

The sign is the bread and wine which represent the crucified Christ, whose death we remember by showing unity with Him and each other thru sharing the communal meal with others bought by His sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) thus being "one bread" ourselves (if believers). Analogous to how pagans have fellowship with demons in their commemorative feasts, and thus the admonition, "thee things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils." (1 Corinthians 10:20)

And certainly Christ should be present in a special way when such union takes place, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:20)

And what is nowhere shown to be in the only wholly inspired-of-God and substantive record of what the NT church believed, which is Scripture, and with Acts thru Revelation best showing how they understood the OT and the gospels is,

• The Lord's supper being conducted by Catholic priests (and only so) or NT pastors (yet expected by not essential) ;

• Offering it up as a sacrifice for sin;

• Dispensing it to people to be consumed as spiritual food;

• The primary active function of pastors being this activity or apostles instructing them in this, versus preaching the word and prayer;

• Partaking of the Lord's supper as the means of obtaining spiritual life versus believing the gospel;

• Literally physically consuming anything on this earth was a means of obtaining obtaining spiritual life (not even any place in Scripture);

• Any theological discourse on the bread and wine by NT leaders or lay persons teaching the above, unlike the word of God as preached and received being spiritual nourishment;

• Jesus living by the Father as we are to live by Him (Jn. 6:57) meaning literally physically consuming His flesh; versus living according to His word and thus the doing of it being His “meat.” (Mt. 4:4; Jn. 4:34)

• Any actual inconsistency with “the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63) meaning the word of God being "milk" and "meat" (1Co. 3:2; Heb. 5:13; 1Pt. 2:2) by which believers are "nourished" (1Tim. 4:6) and built up. (Acts 20:32)

• Any example of the incarnated Christ on earth with the body that would be and was “broken” and His blood poured out as the words at the Lord supper refers to it , in which He appears as inanimate objects that actually do not exist, but decay, etc as if they do, while the Christ has no manifest or testable evidence to His physicality;

• Not discerning the body of Christ in the 1 Co. 11:17-34 discourse meaning not recognizing the union of the believers as that body, ignoring and shaming others, and thus not actually having communion;

And there is more, but even this should not have been necessary. Time to see how HypatiaTaught is doing.

[dangus]

So now you bring up a multitude of other issues to diffuse the debate into too many contentions to have a clear resolution. We’re talking about the presence of Body of Christ in the form of bread and wine.

“For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without recognizing the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.”

Please note, that the purpose of blood in Jewish sacrifice was for the remission of sins, which is what purpose Jesus gives for the Lord’s Supper:

“Unless you eat of my body and drink of my blood, you shall have no life within you.”