Posted on 12/03/2020 5:54:49 AM PST by SeekAndFind
For several weeks now, 2 Chronicles 20:20 has been quoted repeatedly, urging us to believe God’s prophets when they say that Trump will serve a second term while also rebuking those who question what the prophets say. That is a very serious misuse of that scripture. Please allow me to explain.
But first, understand this. I fully affirm prophetic ministry today and have been teaching on it since the 1980s. I have worked with New Testament prophets for years, I have been asked to be a mentor to some prophets, and at times, I have been used prophetically as well. So, my issue is NOT with the validity of prophetic ministry today. And my issue here is not with whether these prophets heard that Trump would serve a second term, nor am I debating here whether the election was stolen. My issue is with the current misuse of “believe the prophets and you will prosper.”
You see, in the Old Testament, the average Israelite could not hear the voice of God for himself or herself, since they were not indwelt by the Spirit as we are today. So, the prophets played a special role in the nation, giving them life and death prophetic words. That’s also why prophets who prophesied falsely were held to strict standards – like stoning.
But today, we don’t stone those who prophesy falsely because they are not held to the same standard. Instead, in these New Testament times, the Spirit has been poured out on all flesh and all believers, potentially, can prophesy. More importantly, all of us can hear the voice of God for ourselves. We don’t need to go to a prophet for a word because the Spirit speaks to all of us. (And of course, we have THE Word, the Bible.)
So, in the New Testament different prophets speak, then their words are weighed carefully by others. Everything is tested, and we hold fast to what is good. We are not simply told to “believe the prophets.” Again, that is not a New Testament concept.
It’s also important to understand that prophets do not lead the Church. They are simply one aspect of the fivefold ministry, and, while they may receive revelation (as one pastor who worked with some powerful prophets explained), they may not have the interpretation, and they often do not have the application. That’s why prophetic leaders are simply one part of a larger leadership team, from whom direction should be given to the Church.
Interestingly, in the last year, there were no major prophets who brought public warnings about COVID-19. (Some said the Lord showed them privately, and some may have spoken of a coming shaking, but none publicly prophesied the pandemic in advance.) In addition, some prominent prophets said that the virus would dissipate beginning mid-April, during Passover, and these words have been played on internet over and again to make charismatics look bad and even to make all believers look bad. So, if ever there was a wrong time to be preaching “believe the prophets,” it is now. As a group, they hardly have a perfect track record.
That being said, if the Lord has spoken to your heart that God wants Trump in office, and if you are convinced that there is fraud, by all means, give yourselves to prayer for God’s righteous outcome. Go for it! But under no circumstances should you judge others who have not heard God say this, telling them they must believe the prophets. Hardly. And what about Jesus-loving, Spirit-filled believers who contacted me privately BEFORE the elections to tell me they believed God showed them Biden would win? Do we tell them to ignore the voice of the Spirit in their own lives and to believe other prophets, even though these prophets do not have a perfect track record?
Perhaps you recognize me as a teacher of the Word but you think I’m lacking in prophetic insight. That’s fine, since I write these words as a teacher of the Word and as a child of God. In short, we must not confuse Old Testament prophetic ministry with New Testament prophetic ministry. And if you want to use an Old Testament text like 2 Chronicles 20:20 (which, by the way, was spoken by the king, not the prophets) and you want to have the authority of Old Testament prophets, then you’ll have to accept the Old Testament penalties for false prophecy too. Be careful what you wish for.
One last note: when you read the Bible, you see that it was often one prophet, like Jeremiah or Micaiah, who was right while the rest of the prophets, the overwhelming majority, were wrong. So, just because there’s a consensus among charismatic prophets doesn’t mean their words are true. Not only so, but it could be those who make us uncomfortable and challenge the crowd who are the ones speaking for God.
When it comes to the current prophetic words, I would love to see them prove true, since friends of mine have predicted that Trump would have a second term and I personally voted for Trump. And again, if there is electoral fraud, I pray it will be exposed – and exposed quickly. But don’t let anyone tell you that you must “believe the prophets.” You have your own walk with the Lord, and as one of Jesus’ sheep, you can hear His voice. For a recent video teaching on this subject, click on this link:
https://youtu.be/xjZBB0UnKUw
Faith precedes before the outcome. Hebrews 11:1
RE: Faith precedes before the outcome.
Yes, but your faith is only as good as the OBJECT of your faith. Millions of people had/still have faith in the teachings of Mao Tse Tung and Karl Marx. What follows?
There is a verse in Scripture that clearly says that ALL Scripture is profitable for us. So, yup, it applies.
What a weird question.
The implied presumption of the question is that prophecy addressed future events up to and CONCLUDING with Jesus life death and resurrection, or for some period of time shortly after that.
What reliable source has suggested that prophecy ends there?
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness...”—2 Timothy 3:16
So, just because there’s a consensus among charismatic prophets doesn’t mean their words are true.
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I left a charismatic church awhile ago. When having a final conversation with the Pastor, he mockingly pointed out that while the overall number of Christians is declining, the number of charismatics is growing. I would argue that the antics of charismatic churches is what is driving a good number of people from taking Christianity seriously in the first place. These modern day ‘prophets’ (who I’m sure also ‘speak in tongues’ and magically heal the sick) are a perfect example.
We are to Believe the Prophets (Old Testament) on what they say about Christ and God. Fools try to read into things beyond what the Prophets say.
God spoke fully in His Son. He is the Word. It is finished and we await His return. No man knows the hour but we can all see the times.
I think the rule of the Old Testament still applies to a prophet today. You are a prophet or not. There are no apostles today, just disciples. Followers.
We all can speak of future things that are written in His Word.
What reliable source has suggested that prophecy ends there?
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There are plenty of such sources if you are willing to open your eyes and ears.
J Vernon McGee was a fantastic Pastor whose sermons are still on the radio everyday. If you google you can find him speaking against these charismatic gifts.
Here is another excellent source for solid Christian teaching:
https://www.gotquestions.org/prophets-today.html
I spent 10 years in it before leaving. That’s been over 20 years ago, and I have no regrets. I know it was the right move which the word of God and the Spirit. I have never looked back, possessing the peace of God in my decision.
I predicted that this post would generate arguments.
>>> There are plenty of such sources if you are willing to open your eyes and ears.
You mean like reading the book of Revelation???
>>>J Vernon McGee was a fantastic Pastor whose sermons are still on the radio everyday. If you google you can find him speaking against these charismatic gifts.
What does McGee have to say about this?:
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
btw... my point didn’t even address gifts of the Spirit.
My point was that prophesy is relevant all the way through end times and beyond.
1 COR 13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
Answer: The gift of prophet (Ephesians 4:11) seems to have been a temporary gift given by Christ for the laying of the foundation of the church. Prophets were foundational to the church (Ephesians 2:20). The prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord to the early believers. Sometimes a prophet’s message was revelatory (new revelation and truth from God) and sometimes a prophet’s message was predictive (see Acts 11:28 and 21:10). The early Christians did not have the complete Bible. Some early Christians did not have access to any of the books of the New Testament. The New Testament prophets “filled the gap” by proclaiming God’s message to the people who would not have access to it otherwise. The last book of the New Testament (Revelation) was not completed until late in the first century. So, the Lord sent prophets to proclaim God’s Word to His people.
Are there true prophets today? If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible? If prophets were the “foundation” of the early church, are we still building the “foundation” today? Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No.
Whatever the case, whenever a person claims to be speaking for God (the essence of prophecy) the key is to compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak through a person today, it would be in 100% complete agreement with what God has already said in the Bible. God does not contradict Himself. 1 John 4:1 instructs us, “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 declares, “Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good.” So, whether it is a “word from the Lord” or a supposed prophecy, our response should be the same. Compare what is said to what the Word of God says. If it contradicts the Bible, throw it out. If it agrees with the Bible, pray for wisdom and discernment as to how to apply the message (2 Timothy 3:16-17; James 1:5).
Yup, that’d be it. I just didn’t have time to go find the exact verse. I knew it was in Timothy.
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