Posted on 11/28/2017 12:09:34 PM PST by ebb tide
Which only proves that water baptism means nothing.
Then it is not grace. Grace doesn't put conditions on anything.
et; No. Only the heretic Martin Luther, and his fellow travelers state that; and Luther's no saint.
Is your reading comprehension that bad? Here, right from the Scripture that Paul penned by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1-10 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christby grace you have been saved and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Romans 3:20-30 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to itthe righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is onewho will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Romans 4:1-25 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspringnot only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, I have made you the father of many nationsin the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, So shall your offspring be. He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was counted to him as righteousness. But the words it was counted to him were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:10-11 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Romans 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Take over girl; as it’s time for breakfast around here.
Don't read Scripture?
That explains a lot.
It would be way to time consuming and a waste of valuable time to pray a rosary or a novena.
I agree that rosaries and novenas are a waste of time.
However, I'm glad to see that y'all are interested in my posts.
No, but we are interested in your soul. And at least courteous enough of you to read what you post.
Looks that way.
Odd that someone would refer to Scripture as *technicolor rants*.
Not very respectful of God’s Holy Word, is it?
Then the burden of proof is on you to prove that something not found in Scripture is Truth, with a capital *T*.
Can’t unfortunately.
Be back later after lunch.
Understand the order of things.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Eph 2:4-10 NASB
True believers in Christ come to Him through faith and only faith. There is no work you can do to earn your faith as noted above. It is God's gift that we can come to Him through faith.
Once we become a disciple of Christ we are to follow and keep His commandments. As Jesus said, "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples (John 15:8 NASB).
If we are doing this we are bearing fruit...or call it works. Either way, we are now working for Him and His kingdom.
Good luck getting him to listen!
When I quoted that to him, he raged that St. Paul never wrote that, and still has refused to admit what is plainly in Scripture.
It was at that point that I gave up on him and spent the rest of the thread just getting as many giggles as I could out of it.
We keep explaining it. I know people walked away from Christ when they had a chance to talk to Him face to face.
How do these verses fall short of establishing that? They tell us that not everything about God has been written down.
That not everything is written down is not equal to knowing what those things are. We do not know. There is no record that can be traced to the time of the Apostles.
The Apostle Johns point in closing his Gospel is that His is a faithful account of the life and message of Christ - despite not being able to include in one book everything Christ did and said. It would be impossible. Despite that reality, his is a faithful account.
He does not say this is a blank check verse that gives justification to believe and teach anything else other than what is written - as equal to what the Spirit inspired.
In fact, at the end of his life, in I John 5:11-13, he concludes with this:
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life
Everything for salvation is in Christ. If you have Him, you have eternal life. If you do not have Him, you do not have eternal life.
And how do you get Him?
Not by eating, but John says by believing - entrusting yourself fully to Him.
The Holy Spirit inspired each Word of Scripture. He chose who and what was recorded that we might know Him. There is no evidence anywhere that anything we need for salvation or Christian growth is left out of the Scriptures.
Any claim that this verse or the others quoted are a blank check, is false. You have the testimony of the Apostle John that what a God gave us in a Scripture is enough to tell you how to have salvation.
The remaining question is, do you have salvation now? Have you entrusted yourself to Him fully, as John wrote?
If you do not know for sure, you can know now.
Correct me if I am wrong bro, but it looks like you have assurance of salvation. Praise God, so do I. It must frustrate those who have no assurance at all. They have my deepest sympathy, but thats on them
According to God, I am saved now, by fully entrusting myself to Christs sacrifice. I have assurance from God. Not a church, not a person, not any merit of my own. It is based on Him and Him alone.
I am eternally grateful.
Those that do not have salvation, nor assurance of salvation now, can have it today. They can private email me and I will do everything I can to explain and pray for them.
He is good.
Have you ever read the account of Peter in the House of Cornelius?
Submitting for baptism to The Lord Christ, is that a work of righteousness or a work to obtain Grace?
“Have you ever read the account of Peter in the House of Cornelius?”
You know I did because I commented on it extensively in the post you responded to (see #121). Maybe you should come here better prepared next time.
Your reading comprehension is ‘selective’ at best. The people Peter preached to displayed the presence of the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE he even finished preaching, before they were baptized; your usual needy ego smarm, not withstanding.
Which is absurd. Extrapolating rebellion to authority in general and liberalism from Luther's principled dissent based on Scripture being supreme is no more valid than linking the principled dissent of America's founder to anarchists. The fact is that the NT church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture (Rm. 3:2; 9:4) and recipients of Divine promises of of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)
And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
And esteem for Scripture as the wholly inspired authoritative word of God and thus the supreme authority was the most fundamental belief behind the Reformation.
And it has been those who most strongly hold to Scripture as the wholly inspired accurate authoritative word of God who have been the most unified in core beliefs , in contrast to Catholics overall, and thus are treated as enemy #1 one by both liberals and TradCats.
In contrast, liberal churches are those who hold to a liberal view of Scripture, both its accuracy and authority, and tend to be closest to Catholicism, and thus are in need of reformation to be as part of the reformation, which must yet continue.
The mass, prayer, the rosary. These first and last. The world denies their power: it is on their power that Christians must throw all their weight.
As recently explained (once again), in the light of the only inspired and substantive record of what the NT church believed, there are no Catholic priests in the NT church, and thus no Mass , nor praying to created beings in Heaven (PTCBIH), and thus no rosary, which are counterfeit substitutes for what Scripture attests to.
Unlike something like a Sinners Prayer, expressions of which we do see, if not as a set formula, asking for mercy from God as a damned and destitute sinners, and trust in Him (Luke 18:13; 23:42; cf. Ps. 34:18) or an "Altar Call," which we see in any invitation for meet with God, Joel 2:13-17) PTCBIH is only supported by the principle of prayer for each other in this physical realm.
However, nowhere in Scripture do we see any believers engaging in prayer to created beings in Heaven or instructed to do so, despite the Spirit inspiring the recording of over 200 prayers, and of this being a most basic practice, and despite there always being plenty of created beings to pray to, and occasions for it since the Fall, yet the only prayers or offerings in Scripture to anyone else in the spiritual world is by pagans, including to the only Queen of Heaven see therein.
Failing to find even one example of PTCBIH, and with instruction on who to address in prayer to Heaven only being that of to the Lord, thus you must resort to eisegetical extrapolation, presuming those in Heaven can not only hear/understand all prayers from earth, mental or oral (which only God is shown able to do), but that we are to address them, though again the Holy Spirit never mentions even one example of doing so.
Meanwhile, from what I recall, any two-way communication btwn created beings in Heaven and earth required both to somehow be present in the same location, and was not that of asking them to intercede to God for them, and was very rare.
Note that elders and angels offering prayers (Rv. 5:8; 8:4,5) in memorial - like as in Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15; 16:9, "an offering of memorial" cf. Num. 16:9, - is not that of them being addressed in prayer, nor does it indicate that they had heard them previously, nor is it described as being a regular postal service, but it is one of the things which is a preclude to the final judgments upon the earth, testifying to the persecutions of the saints by the devil and world that it fit to be punished. For when "He maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble. (Psalms 9:12; cf. Genesis 4:10) and before judgment God brings forth testimony of the warrant for it, which includes the cry of those martyred souls under the altar in Rv. 6:9, and with odors representing prayer, akin to Leviticus 6:15, "burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour, even the memorial of it, unto the Lord." (Leviticus 6:15)
Let's look at what I wrote - which you apparently pretended I never posted by asking if I had ever read that chapter in Acts and now posting the order of events as if I had said otherwise:
Of course - and there were no Christians to baptize them until Peter came. Remember, Cornelius the centurion was a pious Jewish or Noahide believer. He was NOT a Christian in the beginning of Acts 10. Verse 22 points out, We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. Theres no way he would have been respected by all the Jews if he believed in Jesus. Now, in verse 36 it says, You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. The people with Cornelius knew about Jesus but that doesnt mean they yet believed in Him. While Peter preaches to them, they become convinced and the Holy Spirit descends on them. This is a second Pentecost and in one way is even greater than the first for it shows that the Gentiles are invited by Christ as well. And then they are baptized. And? At other times, people have faith and are baptized for some time and only later receive a greater gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:16-17). And?
" your usual needy ego smarm, not withstanding."
I did read it and already documented the order of events. You suggested I had never ever read it. You then posted the order of events as if I had not already posted them in post #121. Maybe you should check that beam in your eye before making comments like your last one there.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.