[ealgeone]

Second, I NEVER said we don't pray *to* Mary, but quite the opposite: I said we do pray *to* Mary, and it's legit: we're not worshiping her as if she were a goddess or some such thing.

The idols and statues say otherwise.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud, ealgeone!! Idols and statues don't say anything. Surely you know that!

Yes, I know idols don't speak. You misunderstood the context of what I was saying. Allow me to clarify.

Roman catholicism has turned her into a goddess as evidenced by the statues/idols of Mary and the prayers to her and the reliance upon Mary for salvation.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Roman catholicism has turned her into a goddess."

You know this isn't true. This misidentification of Mary as a goddess is consistently refused by Catholics, and is explicitly forbidden by the prophets of Israel, the Gospels, the Fathers of the Church, the Catechism --- by all Catholic doctrine.

I must again invite you to distinguish between adoration and veneration. Define your terms. If you won't do that --- a precondition to productive discussion --- then this will just be wasted effort on both of our parts, wheel-spinning, fishtailing on the ice. Without definitions, it's impossible for words to get traction.