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To: unlearner

In the New Testament, the terms “bishop” and “Presbyter” (”priest” being nothing but an English derivation of “Presbyter”) are often used in more loose terms. For example, St. John the Apostle refers to himself as “The Elder” (Presbyter). But there were clearly three levels of authority in the Church: 1. Apostles; 2. Presbyters/Bishops; 3 Deacons. By the time of St. Ignatius (who was disciple of the Apostle John, and who was martyred in 112 a.d.), the terminology crystalized to the forms we now know them. The term bishop was already being used exclusively for those who were successors to the Apostles, and who had the highest level of authority, then you had Presbyters, who function like sub-bishops. Their primary role is to serve as representatives of the bishop, in the bishop’s absence, but when the bishop is present, their roles (both liturgical and administrative) are greatly reduced and subordinated, and then you still have the deacons.

If you read St. Ignatius’ Epistles, this is very clear. These epistles were considered Scripture by many in the early Church, and so are very important, even if they eventually were not included among the books of the New Testament. He was the first bishop of Antioch after the Apostles, and that city was the first center of Christianity after Jerusalem, and so his position in the early Church was highly regarded.

You will also find that he clearly states that the Eucharist really is the body and blood of Christ, and that no group can be call a Church if it does not have a bishop, with priests and deacons. Furthermore, he says that no one who follows another into a schism will inherit the Kingdom of God, and no one who follows heretical doctrine’s is “on the side of the Passion.”

The Church has Christ as its head, and the Holy Spirit as its guide.


72 posted on 01/05/2016 5:45:57 AM PST by crumudgeonous
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To: crumudgeonous

“The Church has Christ as its head, and the Holy Spirit as its guide.”

At least we agree on this point.

“’Presbyter’ (’priest’ being nothing but an English derivation of ‘Presbyter’)”

Perhaps, but it is distinct in the original from the “priest” of the orders of Aaron and Melchizedek. That term is used to describe ALL believers who are now a kingdom of priests. So the term is inaccurate when applied exclusively to church leaders.

“If you read St. Ignatius’ Epistles”

At your suggestion I read and skimmed over some of his writings. Thank you for the suggestion. I will admit I need to spend some time learning more of the writings of the early church leaders, as this has been somewhat lacking in my education.

“He was the first bishop of Antioch after the Apostles, and that city was the first center of Christianity after Jerusalem, and so his position in the early Church was highly regarded.”

I will certainly give that the consideration it is due.

I did read what appears to be a distinction he makes between bishops and presbyters. However, the Bible does not make this distinction as far as I know.

Acts 20:17, 28-31
From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church...
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

This passage uses the terms (elder / overseer i.e. “bishop” / shepherd i.e. “pastor”) interchangeably. It is also instructive that Paul warns of a future time when false teachers would arise from among the leaders. While it is certainly erroneous to think of a local church operating with no leadership, it is equally dangerous to regard any human leaders as having unquestionable authority since it is clear here that it is not only possible for them to err, but Paul recognized it was inevitable.

“You will also find that he clearly states that the Eucharist really is the body and blood of Christ”

Ignatius appears to have written this figuratively, just like passages of the New Testament do. One part I read says: “I am the wheat of God, and am ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of God.” This is consistent with 1 Corinthians 10 which says that believers in the church are the “one bread” and “one body”. Believers are the Church, the one bread, the body of Christ. The corruptible bread eaten to commemorate Christ’s death and the union of believers with Him illustrates this spiritual reality.


73 posted on 01/05/2016 3:33:37 PM PST by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
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