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To: crumudgeonous

“Where did God forbid us from bowing before or kissing the texts of Scripture?”

Exodus 20:5
you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Deuteronomy 5:9
you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Is bowing always an act of worship? No. Can bowing be an act of worship? Yes. Is it possible for images of Christ, Mary, apostles, etc. to become idols? Yes. Is there any command of scripture to bow to images? No. Is there any prohibition against bowing to images? Yes. See above.

It is further disingenuous to make kissing a point of debate because I did not say kissing was prohibited. However, I will add that there is no instruction in scripture to kiss objects. Your bringing up of Jewish custom is salient. Jews were rebuked by Christ for ignoring the commands of God to keep their traditions. This is exactly what Catholic and Orthodox clergy do.

“In fact, the Bible commanded the Israelites to bow before the Ark, and that had two images on it.”

There is no such command. As I pointed out on a similar thread, if Psalm 99 has in mind bowing before the ark of the covenant, no one got to see the ark of the covenant except the High Priest once each year. And further, God actually met with men there. People would be bowing to God, not the ark. And this is part of the problem, apparently some people think God is meeting them at the images they are bowing toward, praying toward, and making offerings toward.

God destroyed His own temple twice because of similar idolatry and sacrilege. Apparently Catholic and Orthodox religious leaders did not learn from this error and seek to repeat it, justify it, and promote it.


12 posted on 01/01/2016 11:58:35 AM PST by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
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To: unlearner

You clearly did not bother reading the original post. If the second commandment is talking about all images, that means we cannot make or have them. So either you must oppose all images, or else you cannot apply that passage to anything that is not an idol.

The Ark is referred to as “the Footstool” of God’s feet:

“Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building” (1 Chronicles 28:2).

“We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool. Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength” (131[132]:7-8).

And the Psalms specifically command us to worship (literally, bow before) the Ark:

“Exalt ye the Lord our God, and worship the footstool of His feet; for He is holy” (Psalm 98[99]:5).

And we see that the Israelites in fact did bow before the Ark:

“And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the Ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads” (Joshua 7:6).

People did see the ark when it was carried in processions. It may be that the ark was not carried in processions after the building of the Temple, but it was was so carried prior to that, and we have accounts of it, particularly with David dancing before the ark.


15 posted on 01/01/2016 12:22:52 PM PST by crumudgeonous
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To: unlearner
God destroyed His own temple twice because of similar idolatry and sacrilege. Apparently Catholic and Orthodox religious leaders did not learn from this error and seek to repeat it, justify it, and promote it.

No they don't, pay attention.

37 posted on 01/01/2016 2:50:50 PM PST by terycarl (common sense prevails over all)
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