Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: af_vet_1981; annalex; Mr Rogers

To be clear it’s clear in the Greek that the pronoun/verb phrase “you are” in verse 9 is the second person plural, so it’s clear that St Paul is addressing the entire church at Corinth when he says “you are God’s building”. It’s still immaterial though because verses 13-15 speak of an individual trial by fire.

The problem really stems from the usage of hemera in verse 13, which as even Strongs says can (and does in other places) mean the day of judgment (by God). In other words the time every man dies.

The problem is that the preponderance of commentaries (on the Internet at least) insist as Mr Rogers has, that essentially this “day” hÄ“mera) in verse 13 is a “future” day yes but it’s a day in the future life of every believer where, sometime while still on earth, each person’s faith will be tested, and that which is true will remain that which is in error will be consumed (or destroyed)

The Catholic translations translate hemera in verse 13 as “day of the Lord”, at least some do, but I haven’t been able to find any Catholic commentaries for a balance to the Protestsant ones I’ve found. Of course commentaries are just that, commentaries, not Scripture. So they can only go so far. Really of course, again, the question comes down to wether or not one accepts the authority of the Catholic Church and her ability to teach authoritatively.

Note that in Heb 9:27, the word hemera is not used for that “judgement”, rather we read there that “it is appointed for man to die once then the judgement”, there the word for “judgement” is krisis not hÄ“mera. Just for everyone’s information.


302 posted on 11/06/2015 6:01:11 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 294 | View Replies ]


To: FourtySeven

But hasn’t the believer in Christ been promised they would not undergo judgment by Christ in John 5:24?


309 posted on 11/06/2015 6:44:53 AM PST by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 302 | View Replies ]

To: FourtySeven; af_vet_1981; annalex; Springfield Reformer; daniel1212; redleghunter

“It’s still immaterial though because verses 13-15 speak of an individual trial by fire.”

No, it does not. First, it is an ANALOGY. Paul compares the church to a building, and compares the ministry of himself, and Apollos and others to the work done on a building. He says some build with materials that last, and others do not.

He then says when the building is burned, the stone remains - but the straw is burned. And thus the fire “will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value.”

On Judgment, God will reveal to all if a minister did his work well, or if he did it in a worldly manner. There is no real fire. Why? Because it is a word picture, a parable. It gives a vivid illustration that shows we must take care to do God’s work in God’s way, so that what we do for God has permanent value - which it only has when it is done IAW God’s will.

If Joel Osteen is a Christian (which I doubt), then he is undoubtedly building with straw. Many praise him now, and he has a huge ‘church’. But on Judgment, God will reveal how many of the church members were actually changed, how many were actually saved, and what (if anything) Osteen preaches that God agrees with.

” Jesus gave them this illustration but they did not grasp the point of what he was saying to them. So Jesus said to them once more, “I do assure you that I myself am the door for the sheep. All who have gone before me are like thieves and rogues, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If a man goes in through me, he will be safe and sound...”

Jesus was not saying he was made of wood and swung both ways! It is a word picture, meant to illustrate (and thus teach) something that is true. It is not literal.

“Then, on the last day, the climax of the festival, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If any man is thirsty, he can come to me and drink! The man who believes in me, as the scripture says, will have rivers of living water flowing from his inmost heart.” (Here he was speaking about the Spirit which those who believe in him would receive. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)”

Jesus didn’t mean Christians would start squirting water out of their hearts. It was a word picture, meant to illustrate a truth.

“For we are partners working together for God, and you are God’s field.

You are also God’s building. 10 Using the gift that God gave me, I did the work of an expert builder and laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each of you must be careful how you build. 11 For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid. 12 Some will use gold or silver or precious stones in building on the foundation; others will use wood or grass or straw. 13 And the quality of each person’s work will be seen when the Day of Christ exposes it.”

A word picture, meant to illustrate a particular truth - that ministers are supposed to work for God and under God, and we are to focus on God and not the individual worker - AND that workers need to make sure they are doing what the Boss wants!

Nor is it an individual trial by fire. The INDIVIDUAL is not burned, nor is he judged, if he is a christian! But - at it flat out says it! - “the quality of each person’s work will be seen when the Day of Christ exposes it”.

It cannot be made any clearer. There is no need for interpretation, since Paul is very explicit. It is very, very simple. Any child can read it and know what Paul meant.

“Really of course, again, the question comes down to wether or not one accepts the authority of the Catholic Church and her ability to teach authoritatively.”

Really, it comes down to this: Does the Word of God override the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Do the words of the Apostles and of Jesus carry more weight than the doctrine of Popes?

Unhappily, those who remain Catholic must accept the doctrine of the Catholic Church and ignore the plain and explicit teaching of Jesus and the Apostles.


310 posted on 11/06/2015 6:47:22 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Can you remember what America was like in 2004?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 302 | View Replies ]

To: FourtySeven; af_vet_1981; Mr Rogers

It is clear that the “day of the Lord” in that context follows death of the individual (for he can hide imperfections while he is alive) but precedes the entry into Heaven (for he is “himself saved”), so we must conclude it is his individual judgment.


323 posted on 11/06/2015 8:16:08 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 302 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson