Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
are you as a Catholic aware that the notion of purgatory is not found in the Bible. BUT the Bema Seat of Christ is found in the Bible and takes place IN HEAVEN?
The Bible does speak of a cleansing fire, which could mean that there is a need for purification. But I do not dwell on it. I put that in God’s hands.
I was not familiar with the term “Bema Seat”, but after reading about it, it’s in line with what I have thought, that Jesus will reward us differently based on how He judges each of us. I have reflected on what Jesus told His disciples in John 14; that His Father’s house has many mansions, that He would go and prepare a place for them, and come back to take them so that they may be where He is. Jesus will also prepare a place for each of us, and the places will be different one from another.
Question: "What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?"Answer: Romans 14:10-12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat…so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In the context, it is clear that both scriptures are referring to Christians, not unbelievers.
The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ. The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.
At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). Some of the things we might be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), and how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9). The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5, 2 Timothy 4:8, James 1:12, 1 Peter 5:4, and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the judgment seat of Christ: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/judgment-seat-Christ.html#ixzz3fK1pLjRa
Do I need to also prove to your that your religion has changed the Bible to suit the dogmas of the RCC?
I used that passage from John 14 with teen Bible study. It is an interesting Physics Lesson that Jesus gave to Philip, isn’t it! In one of John’s letters, we get even more clues as tot he Physics involved in The Rapture ... ‘We will see Him as He is, for when we see Him we shall be like Him’ The great transformation Paul wrote about (in 1Thess, 2Thess, and 1Corinthians) needs lots of Energy to convert into multi-dimensional beings able to see Jesus in His multi-dimensional reality. But as God has stretched forth the heavens, He has built up a huge storehouse of potential energy in the zero point field, which He as God can speak into creating. ... But all that is grist for another mill.
Yes, I did scroll down. It ended at page 107 and the message “Pages 108-445 are not shown in this preview.” I am interested in seeing the context.
Yes.
Do I need to also prove to your that your religion has changed the Bible to suit the dogmas of the RCC?
Changed the Bible. Now that is a funny comment. Given that it was the Catholic Church that combined the OT and the NT into the Bible. Given that we were the ones to preserve it by having the monks hand copy it during the dark ages. Given that we still use all the books and don't omit the ones left out by a Jewish Rabbinical school.
It was a careful and through reading of the Bible that got me back into the Catholic Church from the intellectual void that defines Protestantism.
It seems they do MamaB. It seems they do. Blasphemous as it is but then they are mostly pagan anyway.
If I showed you where the Douay-Rheims changed a pronoun in a Pronouncement from God, from he to she, as a means to promote Mariology, would you even read it?
And when it comes to matters which could pertain to Roman Catholicism, then behind the scenes Romanists gang up and try to (and often succeed) in ruling the roost, working at it seemingly full time.
Which renders wiki in regards to religious issues which touch upon Roman Catholicism something less than entirely accurate, many times for reason of what is not included as much for what is -- and how what is included is worded.
Some of the RC'ers who focus diligently upon manipulating wiki entries may even be paid to do so for all I know.
Check the citations for source(s) of info, follow links provided, and ferret out/search out other info where no link at all is provided.
In that last instance, careful examination can at times turn up RC apologist types (sometimes in guise of historian) as sources for a this, or that, which is chief source of tone for some segment or another of an entry.
After some amount of tone-setting manipulation, it would be an uphill battle to try and introduce information which would serve to refute already published opinions and points of view. The control-freaks are often good at hiding their hand, so to speak.
They'll delete others entries, then in backroom discussion, impugn the sources (if at all possible) of anyone who dares disagree with themselves, while ballyhooing some of their own biased sources, whenever their efforts of controlling and deleting are challenged.
It's sort of like this forum can be, in that way. Shoot the messengers, one way, or a dozen ways over.
Wiki can be good, but is subject to change and revision, and is only as good (and fair) as the inputs.
Really, that constitutes “Changing the Bible”, from a member of the group that removed 7 books. Removing 7 books is changing the Bible.
Oh He was saying the flesh was literally spiritual rather than physical like Catholics believe.
And if you want literal do you ever get thirsty?
Oh, the change I would point to is very significant, given the Mariology of Catholicism. Try reading Genesis 3:15 in several translations, then read it in the Douay-Rheims. The RCC changed the Hebrew meaning entirely. The Septuagint does not support the RCC changes.
I’m sorry I thought you were interested in having a serious discussion. I apologize for making that error.
Um...NO...they just refused the 7 books Catholicism had added which were never scripture in the first place. If you think they were why don't you just burn fish hearts to get rid of demons instead of all the exorcism stuff? And how about fish guts on the eyes to get rid of cataracts? It would save a lot of people the expense of cataract surgery wouldn't it?
Ooops! He caught you with one you couldn’t defend ey? Should we revisit how the Catholic Church changed He to She?
I’ll post it for him next ...
And some (not all) of these people wonder why I don't have any respect for them and their putrefying methodologies..?
It is a legitimate question.
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