Posted on 05/12/2015 4:21:27 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Let us begin with a church history exam question. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (15421621) was a figure not to be taken lightly. He was Pope Clement VIIIs personal theologian and one of the most able figures in the Counter-Reformation movement within sixteenth-century Roman Catholicism. On one occasion, he wrote: The greatest of all Protestant heresies is _______ . Complete, explain, and discuss Bellarmines statement.
How would you answer? What is the greatest of all Protestant heresies? Perhaps justification by faith? Perhaps Scripture alone, or one of the other Reformation watchwords?
Those answers make logical sense. But none of them completes Bellarmines sentence. What he wrote was: The greatest of all Protestant heresies is assurance.
A moments reflection explains why. If justification is not by faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone if faith needs to be completed by works; if Christs work is somehow repeated; if grace is not free and sovereign, then something always needs to be done, to be added for final justification to be ours. That is exactly the problem. If final justification is dependent on something we have to complete it is not possible to enjoy assurance of salvation. For then, theologically, final justification is contingent and uncertain, and it is impossible for anyone (apart from special revelation, Rome conceded) to be sure of salvation. But if Christ has done everything, if justification is by grace, without contributory works; it is received by faiths empty hands then assurance, even full assurance is possible for every believer.
No wonder Bellarmine thought full, free, unfettered grace was dangerous! No wonder the Reformers loved the letter to the Hebrews!
This is why, as the author of Hebrews pauses for breath at the climax of his exposition of Christs work (Heb. 10:18), he continues his argument with a Paul-like therefore (Heb. 10:19). He then urges us to draw near in full assurance of faith (Heb. 10:22). We do not need to re-read the whole letter to see the logical power of his therefore. Christ is our High Priest; our hearts have been sprinkled clean from an evil conscience just as our bodies have been washed with pure water (v.22).
Christ has once-for-all become the sacrifice for our sins, and has been raised and vindicated in the power of an indestructible life as our representative priest. By faith in Him, we are as righteous before the throne of God as He is righteous. For we are justified in His righteousness, His justification alone is ours! And we can no more lose this justification than He can fall from heaven. Thus our justification does not need to be completed any more than does Christs!
With this in view, the author says, by one offering He has perfected for all time those who come to God by him (Heb. 10:14). The reason we can stand before God in full assurance is because we now experience our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water (Heb. 10:22).
Ah, retorted Cardinal Bellarmines Rome, teach this and those who believe it will live in license and antinomianism. But listen instead to the logic of Hebrews. Enjoying this assurance leads to four things: First, an unwavering faithfulness to our confession of faith in Jesus Christ alone as our hope (v.23); second, a careful consideration of how we can encourage each other to love and good works (v.24); third, an ongoing communion with other Christians in worship and every aspect of our fellowship (v.25a); fourth, a life in which we exhort one another to keep looking to Christ and to be faithful to him, as the time of his return draws ever nearer (25b).
It is the good tree that produces good fruit, not the other way round. We are not saved by works; we are saved for works. In fact we are Gods workmanship at work (Eph. 2:910)! Thus, rather than lead to a life of moral and spiritual indifference, the once-for-all work of Jesus Christ and the full-assurance faith it produces, provides believers with the most powerful impetus to live for Gods glory and pleasure. Furthermore, this full assurance is rooted in the fact that God Himself has done all this for us. He has revealed His heart to us in Christ. The Father does not require the death of Christ to persuade Him to love us. Christ died because the Father loves us (John 3:16). He does not lurk behind His Son with sinister intent wishing He could do us ill were it not for the sacrifice his Son had made! No, a thousand times no! the Father Himself loves us in the love of the Son and the love of the Spirit.
Those who enjoy such assurance do not go to the saints or to Mary. Those who look only to Jesus need look nowhere else. In Him we enjoy full assurance of salvation. The greatest of all heresies? If heresy, let me enjoy this most blessed of heresies! For it is Gods own truth and grace!
You left off George Lazenby (Australian) and David Niven (English)
Galatians 5:4 ESV You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
"..you who would be justified by the law;" -- not saved in the first place if you're trusting in the law for justification because NO ONE can keep the law. Only Christ did.
On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
Story of the goats and the sheep -- if one actually reads it in context, one sees that the goats, on the left, are GOATS. NOT SAVED. They're trying to claim that they did works and should be allowed into Heaven.
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
knowledge of... not necessarily saving faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Once you belong to Christ, you are HIS. If God calls you and saves you, you cannot be lost -- if you could be lost, then God is not Omnipotent... if you can lose your salvation, granted to you by God, then God cannot be God.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
Again.. those who depart had no saving faith at the first; they did not lose their salvation if they never had it to begin with....
Romans 11:19-22
I have not the foggiest why you included that -- Rome may cherry pick, but that one isn't even a cherry tree.
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
Taken (again) in context, this is a reference to controlling one's body as an athlete in training equating to diligence in one's faith to avoid sin... and Paul's striving to be diligent in the eyes of those to whom he is writing so as to not be seen as hypocritical. This does not infer loss of salvation. Man... these are a real stretch...
Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
Now... let's really look at this one IN CONTEXT to see how Rome cherry picks: Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play. 8 We must not indulge in sexual immorality mas some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. 9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, 10 nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. 12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Bold is mine.
Can you see what is being taught here? "Don't think you can stand on your own two feet to avoid all of the sin and temptation that's out there... look at what the Israelites faced and the outcomes of relying on themselves... then comes the next verse... Don't stand on your own, STAND ON GOD... and the kicker: " he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it"
NOTHING to do with losing salvation. Nothing. Not in a single verse. Even taken alone and out of context it's mighty hard to imply it. But IN CONTEXT, it says NOTHING about losing one's salvation.
Seems like the only myth around here is the ability of the Roman Catholic Cult to honestly and rightly divide the word of God.... that they supposedly provided to the world.
Right.
Hoss
Don't just say it; prove it.
The Roman Catholic Cult teaches in CCC 841 that Catholics worship the same "God" as Muslims. Muslims don't worship The One True Living Triune God... they worship a false god. They don't even come close to worshiping the One True God imperfectly --
So... do YOU worship the same "God" as Muslims? If so, then you need to hear the Gospel. And presenting it to you is not bigotry. It's doing what God instructed us to do.
If you DON'T worship the same "God" as Muslims, then you need to be concerned about your alignment with the Roman Catholic Church that TEACHES this and to which a "good Catholic" is to be subject.
This is just ONE example of many.
So... prove it.
Hoss
Your understanding of scripture is a myth...
It looks like the semi-cartoonish sketchings you get in the mall kiosks. I assume that the painting is of reasonably high quality and the distorted look with the large head is the style intended.
You are wrong.
Prots don’t listen, why waste any more of my breath on something I have proven already. (That is rhetorical)
You are wrong, still.
Post 367 was intended for both you and me.
Except that us former Catholics KNOW it's true.
Ask around.......
When one can't prove, move. As in bob and weave, duck and run.
You've proven nothing already; you've made a statement -- basically just contradiction and not argument --
Prots do listen, but only when it's truth.
This too is "just rhetorical."
Hoss
Maybe men liked women with big heads in those days!
David Niven? He acted as Bond?
Hey if believing that is what it takes to get prots through the dark scary night, so be it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061452/
So did Peter Sellers, Ursula Andress, Daliah Lavi, and Woody Allen...perhaps others.
Arianism
Arianism threatened to crush out orthodoxy
From the various beliefs that came up from 1500s onwards that have some mention of Jesus Christ, I believe the one that most threatens orthodoxy is Arianism and it's revival -- the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Why? Because if you look at all the various beliefs from the 1500s:
All of these pale in comparison to the earlier beliefs that threatened orthodoxy
One that's over the target, catching flak.
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