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To: Mrs. Don-o; boatbums
They say the "unchangeable Word of God" re the OT prohibition of relations between men or between women, has the same status as the "unchangeable Word of God" re the OT prohibition of fabrics mixing different kinds of fibers and the OT law that witchcraft was punishable by death (Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.")--- cultic and cultural rules considered null in the NT.
They would say further that the words which people mistakenly interpret as "homosexual" in the NT, "malakoi" and "arsnokoitai", in fact referred not to homosexuals in general, nor to gay married people (which did not exist at that time), but to pederasts, rent-boys and cult prostitutes. Link Here

Thus they would argue that it is we (you and I) who are holding to age-old human bigotry, traditions and customs and not the unchangeable word of God from the unchangeable God. They would urge us to stop basing our interpretations on mere human biases and rules, and instead search deeper in to the language of Scripture itself to determine whether Scripture condemns gay marriage.

In other words, they would say that it is the "traditional marriage" people who ware too dependent on "tradition." And as for themselves? Ah! They diligently search the Word of God alone to see that for ALL married couples (including themselves), may do what comes naturally (to them) by mutual consent in their marriage bed - which is "honorable in ALL and UNDEFILED" - and it is between themselves and God.

I know how I would refute this. But I'm interested in how you would. Your thoughts?


If you don't mind me poking my nose in, I have some info that can help with that.

First, the problem with divergent interpretations is rooted in our sin natures, not Scripture.  And like certain forms of sin, the errors of an individual are often quite transparent to an outside observer.  If someone refuses to use a disciplined approach to studying Scripture, those errors can and will be exposed.  I know some here have trouble with the idea of a systematic hermeneutic, but it is one of the best tools we have for getting at the true meaning of the Biblical text despite our personal biases.  And once we know what it actually says, we are still reliant on the Holy Spirit to use that knowledge according to the will of God.  The Pharisees' greatest condemnation no doubt lies not in their ignorance of truth, but in the truth they understood, and flatly rejected.  So hermeneutics by itself is not sufficient, but it is a necessary prerequisite to understanding.

This is how it is with the argument about homosexuality supposedly being rejected by Paul only insofar as it was part of the idolatrous pagan temple service.  It does not require any sacred tradition supplemental to Scripture to realize this entire argument is founded on false history and poorly executed hermeneutics.  I offer to you both this wonderful, if rather long article that utterly dismantles the temple prostitute argument, and does so with standard tools of historical and textual analysis available to anyone willing to do the work:

http://www.robgagnon.net/responsetorogers2.htm

As for the OT versus NT argument, the essential principle for Christians is that the moral law predates the law of Moses.  Murder was wrong in the day of Cain and Abel before it was ever codified by Moses.  Jesus' argument for permanent, heterosexual marriage goes back to the divine paradigm set by God in Adam and Eve, and thus also predates Moses. All those laws pertaining only to the Mosaic covenant with Israel, the dietary and fabric laws, the priestly service, and such, have been displaced by the New Covenant, according to pretty much the whole book of Hebrews, and elsewhere as well.  But all of those pre-Mosaic moral laws, grounded as they were in the eternal law of divine love, were restated in the NT, not as a means to salvation, but as instruction in righteousness.  So the moral law was repurposed, but not repealed. Therefore, the argument for a complete break between the OT and the NT with respect to the moral code fails entirely on a textual basis, with no necessary reference to an external sacred tradition.

Peace,

SR




5,526 posted on 01/08/2015 8:01:19 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer; Mrs. Don-o

Thank you for your comments. They spell out exactly what is the basis for refuting those who would challenge God’s moral laws for humanity. I’ve got errands to run with Mom today so will have time later this evening to comment further.


5,537 posted on 01/08/2015 10:46:47 AM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Thank you for that excellent article at the link you gave from Rob Gagnon. Very informative and useful. It’s a keeper!


5,561 posted on 01/08/2015 10:58:11 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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