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To: Springfield Reformer

I think the only time a son can rebuke his mother is if his mother does or asks something of him that is against God’s Law, or if his mother is doing or saying something factually wrong (thus it’s actually charity to rebuke).

Otherwise, such a son is not giving his mother due respect that “Honor your Father and Mother” demands.

Mary did not ask Jesus to do anything wrong or say something factually incorrect. So to suggest He was rebuking her or in any way confrontational or adversarial with her in any way would be to suggest He broke the Command.

This is a point that Heiser also made that I’d like to see you address. How can one believe that Jesus was confrontational with his mother when she didn’t ask Him to do anything wrong or say anything wrong?

The other verses seem irrelevant to this point because again to suggest He was adversarial or confrontational with her for no good reason would be to imply he wasn’t honoring her there as he always should (or did).


5,441 posted on 01/07/2015 12:58:15 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven
First, the OT occurrences can't be irrelevant because they are exactly the expression in question.  As a matter of translation, that sort of thing is pure gold, because it gives you models for how a given expression works in a variety of settings.  I can't help that it is apparently adversarial.  It is what it is.  

What I would suggest is that Jesus was well within the bounds of respect to speak truth in love to His own mother.  Have you never seen a parent that had to be told something they didn't want to hear?  And yet this case is so much milder, it seems strange to even consider this disrespectful.  Jesus is God.  He's lovingly telling His mother after the flesh there is a difference in their interests.  Respect does not entail dishonesty to keep things running smoothly.  Respect is an expression of love, and as Paul says, love takes pleasure in the truth.  Jesus had to be honest with her. How can that possibly be wrong, when it is tempered with so much love?

Or how does this register on the respect spectrum?
And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
(Luke 2:48-50)
Here Mary tells Him His going missing was very upsetting to her and Joseph.  Yet even at twelve years of age, He is marking out a distance between their concerns and His.  So while I agree in principle that Jesus must, to conform with the law, give proper respect to His parents, I think it should be obvious that He, being God, is in a better position than you or I to know what that entails, don't you think?  Remember how the Pharisees had mangled the Sabbath principle, and in many other ways had evaded the spirit of the law by adding their own traditions.  Likewise, it is tempting to try and get Jesus to conform to our own, faulty understanding of respect.  But I think the better course is to look at what Jesus actually did and say, that's what real respect looks like, speaking the truth in love.

Peace,

SR
5,450 posted on 01/07/2015 2:00:04 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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