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To: don-o; Mrs. Don-o
ealgeone: >Actually, I've seen Mrs Don-O disagree with catholic teaching on this thread. I'll have to dig her comment up on this.<

don-o wrote: Friendly suggestion: Pack a substantial lunch. And be prepared to ask that ridiculous comment be deleted.

Mrs Don-o wrote in post 3795:

You are mistaken. We have always known, for instance, that such Old Testament men of faith as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Elijah are in heaven, and they were not, precisely, members of the Catholic Church. They were not even, precisely, Christians, although we can truly say they believed in the One Who was coming: they believed in anticipation.

We also know that God can sovereignly save anyone and by any means He wishes:

"God's grace has been revealed, and has made salvation possible for the whole human race." (Titus 2:11)

and again,

"God our Savior wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim 2:4).

This is not an avowing of Universalism on my part --- I believe this to be an error --- but it is part of the Catholic belief that, though we are bound by the Sacraments, God is not bound by them

This article has a pretty good explanation of that from a Catholic perspective. This is not new stuff. This is old stuff.

Merry Fifth Day of Christmas...

And a Happy New Year!

I replied back to her and others in my post 3805 for which she did not have a respone.

I don't think I'll be submitting that request to have the comment deleted....but I appreciate the "friendly" suggestion.

BTW.....my lunch was pretty good.

5,134 posted on 01/05/2015 9:49:41 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone; don-o
Thank you for looking up these quotes, ealgeone. None of this is in conflict with Catholic doctrine. The Catholic Church does not maintain that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, Samuel, and the other holy men and women of the Old Testament were not saved.

While it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846-847) LINK, there are exceptions(CCC 847).

For instance, the Church recognizes Baptism of Desire, by which, if a person desired to do all things pleasing to God, they were implicitly desiring Baptism; and if they did not actually enter the Catholic Church via outward Baptism --- through no fault of their own --- God will nevertheless judge them mercifully because He examines the heart and not the outward appearance.

For instance, His Word guarantees that those who forgive, are forgiven (Luke 6:37); those who show others mercy, shall obtain mercy (Matthew 5:7).

5,137 posted on 01/05/2015 10:21:58 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (What does the LORD require of you, but to act justly, to love tenderly, to walk humbly with your God)
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