Posted on 11/25/2014 7:41:28 AM PST by fishtank
From the beginning of creationwhat did Jesus mean?
Theres no getting around Jesus teaching on the age of the earth
by Keaton Halley
Published: 25 November 2014 (GMT+10)
Not everyone welcomes this news, but some of Jesus statements imply, of necessity, that the world is young. This is something I regularly point out when I speak in churches about creation, and it is a theme on which we have written previously, in articles such as Jesus on the age of the earth and in chapter 9 of Refuting Compromise. To reiterate the argument briefly, Jesus claimed that human history began at approximately the same time as all of creation came into existence, not billions of years later. This is evident from Jesus statements like: from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female (Mark 10:6). The obvious implication from these words is that Adam and Eve were on the scene shortly after the heavens and earth were created; they were not latecomers to a cosmos that had already endured for billions of years, as old-earth proponents insist. Thus, for those who take Jesus words seriously, there is no way to fit billions of years into Genesis 1 prior to Adam and Eve.
(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...
An answer to the starlight issue is in this book.
I don't know Greek and we don't know what the spoken original (Aramaic?) words were, but one can't rely exclusively on the details of English translations.
Shalom
Interesting take. Do you agree with this perspective?
Swing and a miss.
The evidence for the age of the earth comes from the genealogies found in the Bible. Ussher is interesting because his observation fits what the genealogy evidences.
LOL, not at all.
My degree is CS with an emphasis numerical analysis and modeling, and I have a fairly deep physics background. I’ve rubbed elbows with a lot of and astronomers and cosmologists, and almost every one of them was at least a deist. (Stephen Hawking is the rare exception).
During my devotional time I sometimes like to close my eyes and give glory to Him as I marvel at His creation, at how sublime and elegant it all is. The Lagrangian of the Standard Model is so beautiful, how the motions of everything in all of physical creation from the largest galactic superclusters down to the smallest elementary particle are all controlled by just 4 simple forces based on 5 basic supersymmetries that can be expressed as a single set of coupled PD equations that can all fit on just a single sheet of paper. That is so amazing. Gloria in excelsis Deo!
What is particularly cool is that God created a creation that we can actually *see*. That is so wildly improbable in a randomly created universe. It is a big knock against the atheists. The Hubble UDF is a dead giveaway that the universe was definitely designed and not random. (In a random universe the UDF photo would be all black or a gray fog. The matter density gradient has to be absolutely perfect to see large structures like galaxies at cosmological distances. That is more improbable than hitting the Powerball Jackpot lottery several times in a row.)
God designed the universe very carefully because I think that He wants us to marvel at the sheer majesty of His creation and see what He hath wrought. He *wants* us to see it. And in doing so we cannot help but be forever humbled by it. Hence God’s admonishment to Job in Job 38.
So I don’t think our own private speculations of this type are wrong at all. After all Paul exhorts us to think of heavenly things. We just need to be cautious in that we should not depend on our own understanding where Scripture is concerned.
So in answer to your question about the creation of time, if I put physics hat on I’d say that space and time are deeply coupled due to Lagrangian supersymmetry, and that the first ‘moment’ (in the quantum mechanical sense) started at the speed of light divided by the Planck length. But as far as how He actually created them, or in what order, I have no idea beyond what Scripture says.
So anyway, I definitely don’t want to pick any fights with you or any other believer. As long as we are careful about pushing our own personal musings past where Scripture allows us to go, I think that such speculations are fine. The white-theory us an interesting little mathematical exercise. (Then there is the holographic principle, with is *really* bizarre and yet also works mathematically.) I have no idea which of these theories is true or not, and the Bible says we should not quarrel about such things. So let us be one in Christ Jesus as we revel in the coolness of God’s Plan and the amazing lengths He went to make it happen in order to reconcile us with Him. Hosannah!
The evidence for the age of the earth comes from the genealogies found in the Bible. Ussher is interesting because his observation fits what the genealogy evidences.
"Pay no attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith." 1 Ti 1:4.
Well, okay then.
Ahh, so it is your position that Torah is the ‘myths and endless genealogies’ referred to?
you know, i don’t know much yet about this “young earth” creationism. i suppose i’ll learn more as time goes by :). anyway, i don’t think this scripture says much about the “age” of the earth. age is usually a concept based on time. for the idolater and athiest, time == causality == God. God is clearly not dependent on time. so none of what they argue presents the slightest difficulty for me. i guess i should read the article to see how they define “age.”
i think the scripture says loads about the nature of God’s Supernatural, and personal creation of the universe (it restates clearly that He and He alone is the first cause) and, of course, describes the nature of the first marriage and by implication His definition of all future marriage, Thank Jesus.
Simply put: God is Eternal, He is the potter, and time is, of course, His clay. We live before we are saved blind and hopelessly stuck in that mirey clay. Praise Jesus and the Father for His lifting us out of the true muck where we worm around blindly stuck in the dark forever without Him. Enough said.
When I studied the account of the creation in Genesis, I realized that there was light in the world before the creation of the sun or moon. Couldn't this be the influence of Christ even before physical light was created?
I read more about the topic and found I wasn't the only one who had considered this.
There are three main maneuvers to escape from a dilemma:
1) create a hierarchy
2) create a distinction
3) change a definition or definitions.
When using maneuver #3, formulate three steps:
Step one:
define the single word creation as an object consisting of all of the heavens and earth or all of this world reality, and not as the creation of humanity.
Step two:
define the phrases beginning of creation, beginning of the creation, beginning of the world, creation of the world, from the beginning, and in the beginning as the whole disputed length of time from the start of the act of let there be light to the instant where God made Adam and Eve in his image.
Step three:
Let the phrases from the foundation of the world and since the foundation of the world refer to the period of time after the formation of man.
Thus:
Mark 10:6 from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.
Mark 13:19 from the beginning of creation
Mathew 19:4 from the beginning
Mathew 19:8 from the beginning
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning
Romans 1:20 since the creation of the world
all refer to the time in step two.And
Luke 11:5051 Prophets blood was shed from the foundation of the world
Hebrews 9:2526 People have been sinning and in need of atonement since the foundation of the world
refers to the time in step 3.
When this is done one can accept the preponderance of the evidence in favor of an old creation and still believe the words of Jesus.
“Taking Jer 4 23-28 out of it’s context”
Explain.
Read it in it's context. Read the whole thing - It is speaking to Israel and to Jerusalem. What, do you think that mid-narrative he suddenly stops and starts talking about something that happened before time? No. He is talking about what WILL come - What SHALL come to pass. The whole passage is pointing to future, not past.
**The universe, on the other hand, exhibits many evidences of being billions of years old. Just to begin with, we’re seeing light coming from far more than 6000 light-years away, and we know from over a dozen ways of testing it, as well as the ramifications of E=MC^2, that it’s speed hasn’t changed.**
Well, I don’t know about the universe’s speed being constant, but, I do know that the earth and the moon stopped spinning for most of a day just so a man could lead his army to victory. (Joshua 10:12-14)
Now, I’m no scientist, but it seems to me that for that event to have taken place, someone was holding a WHOLE LOT of stuff together on this planet that should have come unglued (to put it in simplest terms. And at the very least, the people would have gotten some serious sunburn on exposed skin.).
Or, how about water pots full of water that suddenly have sugars, proteins, acids, etc? (I’ll allow for some minerals to be in the water from the start, since I doubt that Cana’s water supply was distilled.)
God can make ANY THING happen. That’s why he’s God.
“The whole passage is pointing to future, not past.”
In the passage Jeremiah is pointing to the future by making reference to a past event. “without for an void” sound familiar? read Genesis 1:2.
Which is not the way God initially created the Earth: Creating the Earth and then saying the creation is without form and void is a contradiction:
Isaiah 45:18 -
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
No, he is speaking to a future event, when the Sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, when the mountains and hills will tremble.
without for an void sound familiar? read Genesis 1:2.
I think you may find more information in studying the words tohu and bohu in Hebrew.
I find 'gap theory' to be a tired extrapolation with very little evidence, whose sole purpose is to shoehorn evolution into Christianity.
If you care to believe that the Earth was fully formed and functional for billions of years before the creation of the heavens and the hanging of the stars, before the sun and the moon, that is your business. But to my mind, that is a huge amount of history to pack into one verse, especially with nothing more to back it up.
Sooner or later, if you would choose to study the Prophecy and the the mechanisms of prophecy (particularly in this case, The Grand Jubilee and the genealogy from Adam to Messiah), and the way that these things foretell prophecy, you will find that your position does damage. EVERY word of YHWH is true, and every man a liar.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.