Posted on 08/30/2014 7:00:33 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Victoria Osteen, wife of megachurch preacher and New York Times bestselling author Joel Osteen, is now facing withering criticism online for a viral video clip in which she is shown telling congregants at Lakewood Church that obedience, worship and church attendance is not for God but themselves.
"I just want to encourage every one of us to realize when we obey God, we're not doing it for God—I mean, that's one way to look at it—we're doing it for ourselves, because God takes pleasure when we're happy," she said in the 36-second clip posted on YouTube, with her husband smiling at her side in approval. "That's the thing that gives Him the greatest joy…"
"So, I want you to know this morning: Just do good for your own self. Do good because God wants you to be happy," she continued. "When you come to church, when you worship Him, you're not doing it for God really. You're doing it for yourself, because that's what makes God happy. Amen?" the clip ended as congregants cheered.
Erick Erickson, politicly conservative blogger and editor-in-chief of the blog site RedState.com, summed up his reaction to Mrs. Osteen's pronouncement in a quote from the 1995 movie "Billy Madison."
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent, response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul," it ended.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
Wrong.
Grace is bestowed on the believer through Jesus by faith.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
It is FREELY given or it is not grace, but rather wages due.
Romans 4:1-12 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Our works contribute nothing to attaining our salvation. They are the fruit of it, to the praise of God, not the means by which we complete our salvation.
Galatians 3:1-6 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
I didn't say that. You did.
Your’s is so typical of Calvinist replies. Almost utter disregard for the conversions displayed in Acts. Yours, and other mainsteam protestant organizations gladly quote Acts 16:31, and avoid the ‘rest of the story’ where the Philippian jailor’s household was taught the Word and baptized.
I have no idea what this tirade is about.
But, I understand, for I was a proud Calvinist up to the age of 28. Our rural Presbyterian church was well stocked with studious, devout, and EXTREMELY conservative members. Going to movie theaters or even eating in an establishment that served liquor was looked down upon. Some refused playing card games and/or listening to music other than gospel.
Proud Calvinist? The two are contradictory. You were one or the other. And perhaps there is your fundamental issue. And since you brought it up, what stream of Presbyterianism did you worship in?
I have been a member of more than a handful of Presbyterian and Reformed churches and a long term visitor of perhaps a dozen or so and I NEVER witnessed what you claim to have studied under.
Whatever we are commanded to do is law. What saves us is grace. I pray that on that great and fearful day I never point to anything that I have done as playing any part of why I should be admitted into the Kingdom>
Psalms 32:2 Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
And
Romans 4: 7“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
No kidding!
Do you know Joseph Smith, Jr.?
Yes; we all have heard this; or something like it...
If it weren't for Protestants; you'd not have a bible in your hands to read
If it weren't for us Mormons; you'd not have a bible with the errors taken out
If it weren't for us Wiccans; you'd not have a Satanic bible...
If it weren't for us blah, blah, blah; you'd not have yada, yada, yada...
Everybody wants to crow about what They've (their group) has done; thinking the world revolves around them and their works; while forgetting that there are 7,000 out there that have NEVER bowed the knee to ba'al!
Ah; won't we all.
I just like for ALL the choices to be on the table when making a selection.
There was a REASON that a Truth in Advertising law was passed...
And if I wanted to REALLY be contentious; I'd show how those LAWS applied to the Chosen People and not the Gentiles, usually posting the LETTER found in Acts 15 in the process.
I don’t think any of our suffering has any bearing on our salvation.
It just comes with the territory.
Everybody wants to crow about what They’ve (their group) has done; thinking the world revolves around them and their works;
Do you know Joseph Smith, Jr.?
Ooops!
#1 on my list got lost somewhere...
If it weren't for Catholics; you'd not have a bible...
ALL my YEARS of posting Mormon blather has somehow passed you by???
Ooops!
ALL my YEARS of posting Mormon blather has somehow passed you by???
this got me to thinking about the greatest or maybe the wisest comment I have ever heard.
I suppose you have heard of J. Vernon McGee, he ran the radio program called through the Bible, it was heard all over the world.
I was listening to him one day when he was reading the Bible.
He read the scripture and hesitated, then read it again and then said ( I beg your pardon folks, I don`t know what that means )
He was my favorite preacher from then on.
I have listened to uneducated and educated preachers, small church preachers big city preachers and have never heard any of them even hint that there may be something they did not understand, they will smother it with B.S rather than to admit that they do not understand it.
I might not agree with every thing he said but I really respect a person that will be honest with every one and himself.
This happened just before he died back in the eighties but those words come to me as if it were yesterday.
ALL my YEARS of posting Mormon blather has somehow passed you by???
I used to tell my kids and my nephews and nieces ( I have taught you every thing I know and you still don`t know nothing).
I was reminded of McGee’s comment after reading the threads on the premillenism versus Amillenism thread and many more threads from the experts, there is just simply nothing these socalled Bible scholars do not know and completely understand, its enough to make any healthy person sick.
Yup; I listened as well.
I can't recall anything specific that stands out above the rest; but like most good meals, a lot of it has stuck with me.
Haven’t I told you a million times not to exaggerate?
There are enough bible verses that can be used to support these views to paper all three sides of the aisle!
Haven’t I told you a million times not to exaggerate?
There are enough bible verses that can be used to support these views to paper all three sides of the aisle!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.