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To: daniel1212
I noticed you left something out of this That was left out as it was not the issue. That the sacred writers of Scripture do not contradict each other is a given as all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, but that Scripture or tradition cannot contradict Rome is also rejected under the premise that RC doctrine is also inspired of God, and which is based upon the premise that the supreme magisterium of Rome is assuredly infallible, thus her doctrine is trustworthy.

The buying and selling of indulgences, the assumption of Mary, immaculate conception, icons of mary people "venerate", prayers to Mary, Urban II promises forgiveness of sins for those who died in the Crusades...and now there is discussion within the RCC of Mary as a co-redemtrix being declared dogma.

But wait...why hasn't it happened yet?

In August 1996, a Mariological Congress was held in Czestochowa, Poland, where a commission was established in response to a request of the Holy See. The congress sought the opinion of scholars present there regarding the possibility of proposing a fifth Marian dogma on Mary as Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate. The commission unanimously declared that it was not opportune, voting 23-0 against the proposed dogma.

When asked in an interview in 2000 whether the Church would go along with the desire to solemnly define Mary as Co-redemptrix, (the then) Cardinal Ratzinger responded that,

"the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings...Everything comes from Him, as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything she is through Him. The word “Co-redemptrix” would obscure this origin. A correct intention being expressed in the wrong way.

Ya think??

Give it a little more time and it will happen. It only took from around the 5th century to 1950 to declare Mary's "assumption" as dogma. BTW, the vote on that one was 1210 in favor out of 1232 bishops.

Question: If the pope is the vicar of Christ, why does he need an opinion poll? Either he is or isn't the vicar of Christ. If he his he doesn't need an opinion poll.

All because the teaching of Rome is superior over the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God.

We have the Word of God as being the only Holy Spirit inspired words. The words of the man-made post of the pope, which is also non-biblical, are not inspired...at least not by Heaven.

594 posted on 06/13/2014 9:32:10 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: ealgeone
Everything comes from Him, as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything she is through Him. The word “Co-redemptrix” would obscure this origin. A correct intention being expressed in the wrong way. Ya think?? Give it a little more time and it will happen. It only took from around the 5th century to 1950 to declare Mary's "assumption" as dogma. BTW, the vote on that one was 1210 in favor out of 1232 bishops. Question: If the pope is the vicar of Christ, why does he need an opinion poll? Either he is or isn't the vicar of Christ. If he his he doesn't need an opinion poll.

The pope does not, as unlike the Bishops,

Can. 1404

"the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." CCC 882

And the individual bishop receives his pastoral power immediately from the Pope.

This of course, is a result of the unScriptural development of the papacy and progressive deformation of the NT church, with its misconstruance of the Peter of Scripture versus that of Rome.

And one aspect of which that i think is important is that of it's increasing recourse to the arm of the flesh. As early as the Pope Damasus I employed a murderous mob in seeking to secure his throne, and which slew over 100 of his rival pope's supporters.

By the 11th century we see a form of a caesario-papacy reflected in the Dictatus Papae, a compilation of 27 statements of powers arrogated to the Pope that was included in Pope Gregory VII's register under the year 1075. Part of which states

That of the pope alone all princes shall kiss the feet.

That a sentence passed by him may be retracted by no one; and that he himself, alone of all, may retract it.

That he himself may be judged by no one. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/g7-dictpap.asp

As a Catholic source (http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/79-history/215-revisiting-dictatus-papae.html) writes,

in Dictatus Papae, we see that the secular and the spiritual are more intertwined. The Bishop of Rome not only has authority over the secular arm, but the papacy itself was seen as a sort of glorified secular arm.

This concept of the imperial papacy was a clear imitation of the ancient Roman ideal. For example, Cardinals in the later 11th century were referred to as "spiritual senators." During the pontificate of Urban II (1088-1099), the papal government developed three new departments that were common in secular governments - the camera (a kind of exchequer), the chancery, and the chapel, which was a kind of papal entourage. The papal curia strongly resembled the curia regis of France, and the pope had his own steward, cupbearer, cellarers, constable and marshalls (senescalcus, pincerna, buticularii, comestabulus, marescalci). A contemporary ecclesiastical writer calls the pope "a royal priest and imperial bishop"

The imperial insignia were used by the popes in their coronations beginning in the mid 11th century. It is best known from the biography of Paschal II, successor to Urban II. Upon his accession, the pope was clothed in imperial purple (called "immantation"). From there he proceeded into the Lateran Basilica, where he sat alternatively in two chairs and received a girdle with seven keys and a scepter, which symbolized his lordship over the Lateran palace and the papal lands. The imperial purple became a symbol of the papacy. The papal coronations date from this period, as well.

These signs were very intentional. St. Bruno of Segni, a theologian for both Urban II and Paschal II, stated that, "All the insignia of the Roman Empire belong to the pope; whence, in great processions, the Pontiff appears in all that magnificence which used to formerly belong to the emperors" (Bruno of Segni, Tractatus de sacramentis ecclesiae).

Another interesting statement is numbers ten and eleven. Ten states "[The pope's"] name alone shall be spoken in the churches." This clearly refers to the practice of including the name of the reigning pontiff during the Roman Canon. This decree perhaps means that the pope's name alone shall be mentioned universally (versus bishops or secular rulers, who are only mentioned within their respective territories). Eleven is of more interest, for after establishing that only the pope's name shall be used universally, it goes on to say of the pope "That this is the only name in the world."

This phrase sounds a little awkward in English and makes no sense on the literal level. The Latin says Quod hoc unicum est nomen in mundo, which can also be rendered "there is only one such pope" or "the title pope is only to be used of the Roman pontiff", which would be a declaration against both the Holy Roman Emperor and the Patriarch of Constantinople, both of whom had tried to usurp the title "Universal" in one way or another. This was already stated in article two, but perhaps it builds on article 10, which stated that the pope's name alone shall be spoken in the churches, and that in article eleven this is to be understood as applying universally and exclusively.

Nineteen reminds us that pope is judged by no one. Sedvecantists should be reminded of this.

While the Dictatus Papae is not considered an infallible document or very viable in this age, yet the pope as ruling supreme over the secular realm was a historical reality, which it seems many conservative RCs wish for today. . In canon 3f the Ecumenical Fourth Lateran Council [1215] states,

Secular authorities, whatever office they may hold, shall be admonished and induced and if necessary compelled by ecclesiastical censure, that as they wish to be esteemed and numbered among the faithful, so for the defense of the faith they ought publicly to take an oath that they will strive in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics pointed out by the Church; so that whenever anyone shall have assumed authority, whether spiritual or temporal, let him be bound to confirm this decree by oath.

But if a temporal ruler, after having been requested and admonished by the Church, should neglect to cleanse his territory of this heretical foulness, let him be excommunicated by the metropolitan and the other bishops of the province. If he refuses to make satisfaction within a year, let the matter be made known to the supreme pontiff, that he may declare the ruler’s vassals absolved from their allegiance and may offer the territory to be ruled lay Catholics.. (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp)

And in the Baltimore Catechism, the de facto standard Catholic school text in the United States from 1885 to the late 1960sm we read,

Q. 549. How is the Church One?

The Church is One because all its members agree in one faith, are all in one communion, and are all under one head.

Q. 539. What do we mean by the "temporal power" of the Pope?

A. By the temporal power of the Pope we mean the right which the Pope has as a temporal or ordinary ruler to govern the states and manage the properties that have rightfully come into the possession of the Church.

Q. 540. How did the Pope acquire and how was he deprived of the temporal power?

A. The Pope acquired the temporal power in a just manner by the consent of those who had a right to bestow it. He was deprived of it in an unjust manner by political changes. - http://baltimore-catechism.com/lesson12.htm : The binding power of the Syllabus of Pius IX [distinct from Pius X] is differently explained by Catholic theologians.

621 posted on 06/14/2014 3:16:59 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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