Unless a person has become a reprobate, works does not factor in our salvation. However, I do think God wants us to be continually improving.
Only when judging by man's standards. There is no such thing in the eyes of our perfect God.
We are saved wholly and completely by grace through the object of our faith—The Lord Jesus. And we are saved unto good works. Until we are saved we have no good works to offer a holy holy holy God. The Bible likens our best works to “filthy rags” and says that not one understands, is righteous, seeks after God, or does good...”no, not one.” Man at his very best is still “dead in trespasses and sins.”
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
—Ephesians 2:8-10
A man who has been born again will indeed produce good works because his nature has been changed. However, a man who has the miracle of the new birth wrought in him by the Holy Spirit, a man in Christ, is fitted perfectly for heaven.
“But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:” (1 Cor 1:30)
Our salvation is y the grace of God.... period. We know a tree by its fruits.... therefore once saved by God’ grace. we would want to do His will. All the rest is fuzz and fluff
Works are the fruits of Salvation.
Saying someone is good is too subjective to be a basis for belief.
Lemmie see, now.......
Just who is it that will determine where your soul will go?
Who dat?
Gee, I had it right here on the tip of my tongue a minit ago.....
God saves us by giving us our faith. After accepting this gift, do we not want to do everything for Him? cleaning, playing, reading, sharing, giving, being friendly to those who spit on us, taking care of others, everything. Do all to glorify His name. All. It’s what people who are in love do in response to that love.
**Who Needs Works?**
We all do.
Even God worked six days and then rested on the seventh day.
The absolutely inflexible Law crushes us and pushes us to the ONLY alternative: “All who call upon the name of The Lord will be saved.” Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, how easy was it to look upon! Yet I’m sure plenty said “that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. No thanks!”
Many don’t want a salvation they can’t work for and prove themselves worthy of.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
"Not every one that saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of My Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 7:21
"But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation." Romans 2:5-8
"For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil." 2 Corinthians 5:10
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works." 2 Corinthians 11:15
"You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace. For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity." Galatians 5:4-6
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
"Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to His good will." Philippians 2:12-13
"Knowing that you shall receive of the Lord the reward of inheritance. Serve ye the Lord Christ. For he that doth wrong, shall receive for that which he hath done wrongfully: and there is no respect of persons with God." Colossians 3:24-25
"What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?" James 2:14
"So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself." James 2:17
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20
"Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" James 2:24
"For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." James 2:26
"And if you invoke as Father Him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one's work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here." 1 Peter 1:17
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works." Apocalypse 20:12-13
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
Both faith and works should be examined for success and failure.
Faith needs to be, dare I say, “holistic”? That is, a combination of spiritual, emotional, intellectual, and physical things acting in concert to express faith. Importantly, faith is not, nor can ever be, pure, because we are earthly creatures, and as we are dynamic beings, so is our faith. It has all the facets and flaws of a diamond.
Works, on the other hand, are of two things: intent and result. While you might intend to do good works, you may not be good at it, and may cause more harm than good. Likewise, your intent may be neutral or even harmful, but the result may be beneficial and helpful.
For instance, a teacher does not just give their students the answers, but instead sets up barriers that students must overcome to find their own answers. Even in the short term this produces the best results.
Thanks for the very helpful and informative post. I have always been suspicious of people who say “faith alone” saves. I was saved by grace when I didn’t believe (or trust) God. All I had done was to ask his help.
There is an preacher who say’s “faith alone” and who has had some shady extramarital affairs. I would like to know what amends and forgiveness he has done (or not done) around his infidelities.
The issue of faith versus works is relatively simply: Rm 4 is not simply saying one can be saved without becoming Jewish, but that they are saved without the works-merit system of the Law, thus he also tells Greeks "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" (Titus 3:5)
God justifies the UnGodly by faith, not by making them morally perfect, but like as helpless Abraham could not begat a vast nation, but believed God and it was counted for righteous, so God imputes faith as righteousness for the unGodly, but regenerates them so they will live Godly — and repent when convicted of not doing so.
For saving faith is a living faith that cannot help but confess the Lord, and which confession is confirmatory of saving faith. "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:10) "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;" (2 Corinthians 4:13) "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." (Hebrews 6:9) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14)
And baptism under water is the normative initial confession of Jesus as Lord, but which is not essentially different from confession with the mouth insofar as it is a volitional act.
And thus works of faith by the Spirit are necessary for salvation in the sense that without such works there is no faith. And which (contrary to the Roman Catholic straw man of sola fide) reformers preached:
In his Introduction to Romans, Luther stated that saving faith is, “a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly...Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt] “
This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]
Contemporary evangelical theologian R. C. Sproul writes,
The relationship of faith and good works is one that may be distinguished but never separated...if good works do not follow from our profession of faith, it is a clear indication that we do not possess justifying faith. The Reformed formula is, “We are justified by faith alone but not by a faith that is alone.”[[“Essential Truths of the Christian Faith,” Google books] More.
And as faith in effect is synonymous with works, then like as Christ said, "Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?," (Mark 2:9) so to believe is to obey. And thus Abraham can be said to be saved by works, as that is faith in action, justifying him as one that truly does believe and is saved. (Ja. 2)
DaveMSmith evidently has you all believing that he is arguing like a Catholic versus Protestant, or as a Christian, when in realiyy DaveMSmith belongs to occult led by a man vainly "puffed up by his fleshly mind" and who almost makes Joseph Smith looks sober, and with whom we have dealt with before: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3023264/posts?page=118#118 (and see links) That cult being Swedenborgism. And it is his expressed desire to use FR to post his deceitful Bible studies
He tried this already and was exposed by more than me, yet he simply tries it again. There was a reason i distinctly said he rejects half the Bible as being the very wholly inspired word of God, for Borg rejects Biblical books that in his supreme cultic judgment have an i”nternal sense.” Which Smith will deny despite being shown the evidence. And as told said, quoting things from sources that affirm some truths, as Paul in quoting pagans twice, does not mean they are Scripture.
For as shown before, Borg himself states in his verbose Arcana Coelestia (10325):
The books of the Word are all those which have an internal sense; and those which have not an internal sense are not the Word. [eph. mine]
The books of the Word in the Old Testament are the five books of Moses, the book of Joshua, the book of Judges, the two books of Samuel, the two books of Kings, the Psalms of David, the Prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi;
and in the New Testament the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; and Revelation. - http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/ac/ac207.htm
Consistent with this criteria by which Born rejects sacred books of the Bible, he writes,
Solomon composed the Song of Songs, a book that is not a sacred one because it does not inwardly contain heavenly and Divine matters forming a continuous train of thought, such as sacred books contain.- Arcana Coelestia (Elliott) n. 9942 http://www.e-swedenborg.com/writings/static/d8086/9942.htm
And the Borg did and does lead a church, the "new church," as even while he did not personally establish it, yet he foretold it, prepared for it, and his words required it, and is the leader of it thru his teachings that they follow it. However, Christians follow Christ, who foretold of His church, and began it after his resurrection, and whom real believers follow thru the Scriptures. Borg is simply another deluded antiChrist. May God grant you repentance unto surrender to Christ the Lord.
"It will be seen that there is not a single genuine truth remaining in the church, and also that unless a new church shall be raised up in the place of the present one..." "...the beginning of a new church, is now at hand." " " ..there is at this day an end of the former church and the beginning of a new church.." "Also that blessed are those that come to the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:9). This took place on the nineteenth day of June, 1770". - Swedenborg, "True Christian Religion;" http://www.sacred-texts.com/swd/tcr/tcr16.htm
No one, unless they look past the 'Saved By Grace' that Everyone claims to believe; into the territory of 'Kept By Works'; which SO many tend to preach.
The Book says:
Micah 6:8
He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
1 John 3:21-23Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.