Posted on 01/09/2014 9:09:07 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Existence is Hell. QED
Good word study, and I can conceed the point. However, this then implies that the Devil’s angels will be annihilated as well, which the scripture does not address ast all, either way, to my knowldge, other than Jesus stating that the “eternal fire” was prepared for “...the Devil and his angels...”. Matt 25:41.
A careful reading reveals it indicates no such thing. It simply says they were judged acording to what was written. It says nothing about degree of punishment.
QUOTE:"Just as the first death wasn’t the end, neither will the second death, unfortunately for them, be the end."
The first death is the body only, the second death is the body and the soul. See:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Destroy in no way implies eternal life withoud God in a constant state of torment. It means destroy, just like death menas death, perish means perish, etc.
QUOTE: "I know hell is a hard doctrine."
Because the idea of eternal torment is hard to reconcile with the plain reading of scripture. Everlasting and Eternal mean a permanent state, that is, they will not be released for the final destination. You think it means tormented forever, where it really means irreversible annihilation.
Do you not see that you are twisting the plain meaning to fit a doctrine?
Better yet, why need access to the Tree of Life if we already have eternal life? And why exclude others from it? And if we don't eat of it, will we die? Do those in the Lake have the "Tree of...
never mind.
This proof verse raises more questions than it answers, if one is willing to ponder it. Or maybe it just means that only those written in the boo of life are left alive, and thus have access to the city. There aint no one else.
You got it wrong. Jesus does not "knock on our hearts door" for salvation. Before you quote the Revelation 3:20 proof text, read it in context, it is addressed to believers.
The first death WOULD BE FINAL were it not for the Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
The answer to your question is The Resurrection. That is our hope as Christians and Jesus said our reward is WITH HIM when He returns.
Revelation 22:12
“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work."
There is no resurrection from the Second Death. It is final - permanent: eternal.
Metaphor for simple human minds to comprehend about those who practice wickedness that want to enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus told us that there would be 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' in reference to those wicked who will not be allowed to enter the Kingdom, right before they are cast into the lake of fire.
Better yet, why need access to the Tree of Life if we already have eternal life? And why exclude others from it? And if we don't eat of it, will we die? Do those in the Lake have the "Tree of…
You hit the tradition square in it's weak spot. Atheists are very keen to nail this 'contradiction' that they assume proves the bible nothing but a fairy tale.
We have no access to Eternal Life due our sins that have cut us off and condemned us to eternal death, except through Christ who paid that penalty in His own blood that we might be saved from that death.
For even Jesus after death, awaited The Father to resurrect Him to Life after 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb. Jesus showed us our future if we would be but faithful, by His own resurrection.
Without a resurrection, there is no life - only the Second Death - permanent death; cessation of existence with no consciousness.
But, without the ressurection of the dead, the first death would be final. Since we are appointed once to die, and after this, the judgement everyone's physical body must give up the life that is in it. The second death, however, is everlasting, eternal, permanent. Those who suffer it have no chance for a resurrection, for they will have nothing to recurrect.
The "Eternal Torment" misinterpretation of the scripture makes God a pernicious, vindictive being.
AGREED!!!
I am thinking more of a “true/false”, “yes/no”, or “1/0” type of binary.
ACtually. shouldn’t what you are suggesting be a “duality”, rather than a binary?
Binary opposition is a linked pair of related opposites.
the existence of God does not imply the existence of Satan.
Proof? God pre-existed Satan and created him.
Further proof? Further proof, other beings exist besides God and Satan. One doesn’t have to be one or the other. One does have to follow one or the other, if both exist.
which brings up the primary binary question: God either exists, or he doesn’t. There is no in-between. There are lots of things between God and Satan.
A given. The point is that for a Christian to believe in God, yet reject His Word regarding Satan (e.g. "And the Lord shewed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord: and Satan stood on his right hand to be his adversary. And the Lord said to Satan: The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan: and the Lord that chose Jerusalem rebuke thee: Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? ") is a contradiction.
well, you can believe in a God who is NOT the God of the Bible. It won’t do you much good in the long run, but it is possible.
My point is that God/Satan in NOT a binary. If something is true of false, a true binary, it is either true or false. It can’t be both, and it can’t be neither.
This does not apply to God/Satan. It can be neither, it can be both, it can even be either, or depending on how you define things it can be God but not Satan, but not Satan but not God.
the point being that there are at least 3 possibilites, not two.
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