Posted on 11/28/2013 12:33:26 PM PST by annalex
Interesting. Placing Mary in a mandorla is a bit unorthodox though. Thank you.
Thank you.
Caucus thread: don’t feed the troll.
I don't think there is a definitive teaching either way. Yes, a Catholic artist would probably not choose to show Our Lady in pain, and the director of the movie was not Catholic. You may want to read some of this marathon thread:
'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
Note that the image of Our Lady "being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered" (Apoc. 12) does not have to be taken literally since the chapter contains much allegorical language and none historical.
Thank you for the exhaustive responses, but this is a thread closed to non-Catholics and non-Orthodox; let us not feed the troll further.
In two places in scripture, and famously once in private revelation.
First time in scripture: the Annunciation text - and the reported words of Gabriel - comes to us from Mary.
Of the two humans present at the Annunciation: she is the one who appears to have passed on the events of the Annunciation to others. ("But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart")
Second time in scripture: Mary herself directly speaks of what God has done for her in the Magnificat.
Luke 1.46:And Mary said "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour,"
Here, Mary speaks of God as her Savior, but she speaks in the present tense.
She does not say "God, who will be my Savior." She has already been saved.
If we look at one of the Old Testament passages that Mary bases her words upon, we see this more clearly.
Isaiah 51.10:I I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall exult in my God; for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation, he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
Educated 1st Century Jews would have recognized that in echoing this passage Mary clearly considered that God had already clothed her with the garments of salvation, and covered her with the robe of righteousness. She knew that she was without sin, and thanked God for it.
Finally there is the private revelation to Bernadette Soubirous
... On March 25th, I was roused from sleep by an inner insistence to go to the grotto. It was still dark when I reached Massabielle. The Lady was there and waiting for me.
I apologised for keeping her waiting, for I had caught a cold. She smiled, I knelt down, we said the Rosary together. Then the Lady came very close to me. I told her how I loved her, and how happy I was to see her again.
"Mademoiselle," I said, "would you be so kind as to tell me who you are, if you please?" Instead of replying, she only smiled.
I said again, "Would you be so kind as to tell me who you are?" I said this four times altogether.
The Lady extended her hands towards the ground, swept them upwards to join them on her heart, raised her eyes, but not her head to Heaven, leaned tenderly towards me and said, "Que soy era Immaculada Conceptiou." She smiled at me. She disappeared. I was alone.
I did not understand the words, but I knew the Priest would. I knew also the Lady loved the Priest. Leaving my candle at the grotto, I went straight to Fr. Peyramale, saying the Lady's name to myself along the way. Father was waiting for me. I bowed and said, "I am the Immaculate Conception." Seeing his surprise, I explained, "Aquero said, 'I am the Immaculate Conception'."
The good Priest stood there stunned. Suddenly he stammered, "Do you know what that means?" I shook my head, I said " No."
"Then how can you say the words if you do not understand them?" "I repeated them all along the way," I replied, then added, "She still wants the chapel."
The Priest by now was deathly pale, but he pulled himself together, saying, "Go home now, child. I will see you another day."
Years later I learned that Father wrote to the Bishop that night, and as he wrote, his heart filled up with emotion, and his eyes filled up with tears.
Hope this was helpful.
No problem Annales: I will absent myself.
God bless.
Thank-you very, very much. :)
Your posts are welcome, and I hesitate to prevent your learned posts on the topic. From practice I know that anything at all posted about Our Lady Mother of God invites disruption and I want the Caucus designation to be respected. Anyone wishing to get questions answered is free to post a non-caucus thread and ping you, or me, or any other Catholic Freeper.
This Religion Forum thread is labeled “Cath-Orth Caucus” meaning if you are not currently, actively either Catholic or Orthodox then do not post on this thread.
Well then keep it off the general forum. I didn't go looking for this stuff. Either that or don't start whining when you're losing the argument.
If you do not wish to see Religion Forum posts, do NOT use the “everything” option on the Free Republic browse option list. Instead, browse by “News/Activism.” When you log back in, the browse will reset to “everything” - so be sure to set it back to “News/Activism.”
I did not know he was troll. I thought a mixed up lapsed Catholic. lol.
Besides, the argument was good; I regret it was pulled.
If you have questions about Mary Mother of God, please find an open thread where that would be on topic, or start your own, and ping me or agere_contra; we will be happy to answer your questions.
Troll is anyone who, having been informed of the caucus nature of the thread, continues to abuse the thread. When you posted to him, indeed the abuse was not evident.
10-4 thanks
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