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To: dsc

“If vernacular translations have taught us anything, it is that they are a door through which error enters—some inadvertent, some malicious.”

Ah yes...trust the Pope, not the Word of God. That pretty well sums up Catholic theology - trust men, not God’s Word.

But what did Peter write?

19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Why?

2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories.

Jesus gave the Canon of the Old Testament, and the scripture - “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work.” - is the “breath of God”.

The introduction of priests, offering a sacrifice of Jesus, is completely contrary to the clear teaching of the New Testament. There were none, and the New Testament makes it clear that we have a High Priest, Jesus, and that ALL believers are priests who offer sacrifices of thanksgiving and praise and good deeds - but no one sacrifices Jesus:

“11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

There are no more sacrifices to be given, for the Word of God says “this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins”, and “by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy”. It is not like the Old Testament, when priests were needed, because the Holy Spirit now lives within us:

“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

As Jesus said:

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me...When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment...But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

At the once for all sacrifice of God, the veil was torn, from top to bottom.

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever...

24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.


14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to [Peter] in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”


The Priesthood of the Catholic Church is a continuation of the Priesthood of Aaron & the Old Testament. It makes men happy, but it defies the will of God. For God has replaced a human priesthood with the priesthood of Jesus Himself. The Word of God is clear: The sacrifice of Jesus was “once for all”, not to be repeated and not a perpetual on-going sacrifice. It is also clear that the Old Covenant has been replaced, and God Himself dwells in us: “ Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?”

Immanuel. “God with us”.


54 posted on 11/02/2013 8:10:32 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers

“Ah yes...trust the Pope, not the Word of God.”

Your talent for getting things backwards is astounding.

The reason to eschew vernacular translations, or at least to keep them subordinate to the Vulgate, is to prevent men—popes or anyone else—from tampering with the Bible.

Because Latin is a so-called dead-language, it is frozen in time. The meanings of words do not change; new idioms do not enter dead languages as they do those in use today. Besides, translation is always an opportunity for people to produce what the Bible “ought” to say, according to them, rather than what it says.

Here’s a common translation of a prayer called Anima Christi.

Soul of Christ, make me holy
Body of Christ, be my salvation
Blood of Christ, let me drink your wine
Water flowing from the side of Christ, wash me clean
Passion of Christ, strengthen me
Kind Jesus, hear my prayer
Hide me within your wounds
And keep me close to you
Defend me from the evil enemy
And call me at the hour of my death
To the fellowship of your saints
That I might sing your praise with them for all eternity.
Amen.

Now, here’s a response that appeared in a discussion of that translation.


I’m sorry to say, with all friendly intentions, that I don’t think much of your interpretation of the Anima Christi. I always say it in Latin, but what it means to me is:

Soul of Christ, sanctify me. (Work within my heart to make it a fit place for You to bide. Chop, prune, dig, plow, pull up stumps with mules, slash and burn, do what You must to turn that jungle into a place that does not offend You.)

Body of Christ, save me. (Save me from my own sinful nature, save me from eternal damnation, save me from doing things that offend you, save me from the Evil One.)

Blood of Christ, inebriate me. (Make me drunk on love of You, drunk on Your love, drunk from contemplation of Your Mercy, Your Sacrifice, Your Pain, Your Glory, Your Sacred Heart, Your Precious Blood, Your Victory, Your Presence.)

Water from the side of Christ, wash me. (Wash away my sins and sinfulness. Make me clean enough to prostrate myself before You.)

Passion of Christ, strengthen me. (My Jesus, I know my sins have wounded Thy loving heart. Through Thy bitter Passion and death, free me from the power of sin and give me a new heart.)

Good Jesus, hear me. (Word Incarnate, despise not my words, I humbly implore you.)

Within Your wounds hide me. (Let your five Sacred Wounds be my refuge from the Evils of Satan and the world—a refuge I can never deserve, but crave like the breath of life itself.)

And let me not be separated from You. (Only through my own sloth or sinful nature could I separate myself from You. If I should again become lost, I pray You again come find me, and deliver me yet again from the eternal loss of Your presence.)

From the hosts of Evil defend me. (But grant me the Grace to welcome whatever it may please you to send me each and every day, however unjust or crushing it may seem to me in my folly and ignorance, because it is that which You have foreseen, decreed, and ordained from all eternity.)

At the hour of my death call me and bid me come to You (Most of your creatures fear death, oh Lord of all joy, but if death brings me to You, I beg that You delay not one additional day after my course shall be run and my duties discharged.)

That together with Your saints I may praise You for all eternity. (But how could I ever deserve such honor, such joy, such peace? My sins have earned me only the fires of Hell. How can I escape Your justice except through Your love and mercy, and it is there that my faith and hope repose. Look not upon my sins, Lord, but upon my broken and contrite heart, for this is the sacrifice that You will not reject.)
Amen.

And here’s the Latin, in case you want to do your own translation.

Anima Christi, sanctifica me
Corpus Christi, salva me
Sanguis Christi, inebria me
Aqua lateris Christi, lava me
Passio Christi, conforta me
O bone Jesu, exaudi me
Intra tua vulnera absconde me
Ne permitas me separari a te
Ab hoste maligno defende me.
In hora mortis meae voca me
Et iube me venire ad te
Ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te
In secula seculorum.
Amen.

Note how each line ends with the long A sound, as in the word “may.” It has meter and rhyme, and is a very inspiring, humbling prayer.

The first translation didn’t even have to sport many changes to bleed the raw power from this prayer. In like manner, some translations of the Bible change the meaning of crucial passages. And, of course, the deletion of entire books has had catastrophic effects.

We cling to the Latin not out of obedience to the Holy Father, but to keep him or anyone else from tampering with the Bible and other—necessarily subordinate—writings.

As a Catholic, whenever I am thinking about a theological proposition or the content of some private revelation, the first thing I consider is, “Does this contradict Scripture in any way?”


60 posted on 11/03/2013 9:30:12 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Mr Rogers

“19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.”

Okay, now let’s look at a correct rendition:

1:19. And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts.

1:20. Understanding this first: That no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation…This shows plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

See, your translation gave, “...by the prophet’s own interpretation of things...” but that’s not what the Bible says. The Bible says, “...no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation...”

I do not believe that’s a good-faith error. I think it was deliberately mistranslated to hide from protestants that “...no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation...” with the intent of making people think that a completely uneducated 80-IQ son of God is as qualified as a scholarly 180-IQ theologian.

People here like to talk about Catholics being “arrogant,” but it is we who admit that we can profit from the intellectual work product of 2000 years of scholarship. Am I as qualified to interpret scripture as Saint Thomas Aquinas? Not bleedin’ likely, mate.

As Chesterton wrote, “There is no other case of one continuous intelligent institution that has been thinking about thinking for two thousand years. Its experience naturally covers nearly all experiences; and especially nearly all errors. The result is a map in which all the blind alleys and bad roads are clearly marked, all the ways that have been shown to be worthless by the best of all evidence: the evidence of those who have gone down them.”


61 posted on 11/03/2013 10:13:57 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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