Posted on 07/11/2012 6:23:41 AM PDT by NYer
An Illinois priest forced out of his parish by Belleville's Catholic bishop for improvising prayers during Mass will no longer be able to preach in public as of today.
The Rev. William Rowe said Monday that Bishop Edward Braxton has suspended him and removed his "faculties," or license to practice ministry under church law. The move has been associated in recent years with the punishment of clergy accused of sexually abusing minors.
Rowe, the pastor of St. Mary Catholic Church in Mount Carmel, Ill., has not been accused of abuse, but he has clashed with Braxton over altering the liturgical prayers of the Roman Missal — the book of prayers, chants and responses used during Mass.
Last month, St. Mary's parishioners learned that Braxton had officially removed Rowe, their pastor of 18 years. But a separate letter from Braxton recently informed Rowe, 72, that not only would he have to leave the church, but that he could not preach in public anywhere.
Rowe said he could no longer celebrate public Masses or preside at weddings, funerals or baptisms. The only exception, Rowe said, involves a dying person; he can still hear a confession, baptize or anoint that person.
Rowe was scheduled to witness a wedding Saturday — and four others over the summer — but won't be able to preside. He also will not be able to preside over a funeral Wednesday for an elderly St. Mary's parishioner.
"That's very hard for the family," Rowe said. "I'll be there, but I can't participate."
(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...
So, when He said "this is my body" you don't take it as symbolic?
I don’t particpate in this ritual in any form. Does that clear things up for you?
If the circumstances required it or I felt compelled to, yes. I also don't use prayer beads, wear a crucifix or any jewelry for that matter. Not even a wedding ring.
So, where he says "do this in memory of me" you refuse?
Pretty much. I'm uncomfortable participating in ritualized cannibalism in any form. Therefore I don't.
Now, would you be so kind as to get around to answering the question I originally posed?
Then you at least agree that the Eucharist is the Real Presence of Christ.
"From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him." - John 6:66
Actually I don’t. It’s a cracker and a sip of wine. Whatever significance people choose to attach to it is their own business. It’s certainly not worth fighting over in either case.
That's good, since cannibalism is not. Now that it seems like I'm dealing with a non-Christian since you don't appear to take the Lord's instructions to heart, I can proceed with an answer.
It is not cannibalism. To help you understand, you'll need to do a historical word study on "accident", and "substance" as used in philosophy. The substance we believe to be His living glorified body, soul, and divinity. Communion is not partaking of a dead piece of meat.
Dude, there are people who believe that since a priest mumbles some words over a cracker and a sip of wine they actually become the flesh and blood of a dead man.
If they believe that’s what they’re consuming, it’s cannibalism. No amount of philosophical rambling will ever change that.
Are you a teenager?
there are people who believe that since a priest mumbles some words over a cracker and a sip of wine they actually become the flesh and blood of a dead man. If they believe that’s what they’re consuming, it’s cannibalism.
Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, nor Anglican churches believe they are consuming the flesh and blood of a dead man. So, no it is not cannibalism.
Eating another human being, even symbolically, is beyond mere weird to me. I have no problem if you want to do it. As long as you’re not forcing me to to either do it or pay for it, I don’t really care what you do with your Sunday mornings.
May I suggest the Unitarian Universalist or Episcopalian or United Church of Christ? They're not so stuck on such legalistic restraints such as abortion, birth control or homosexuality.
Nobody if forcing Christianity on you.
No.
"My church is set up to enter the 'gathering area' or small hall and then enter the church itself through internal double doors. On the table just outside the doors is a family sized St. Joseph edition leatherbound (impressive - I bought one - from the church), as well as a pile of softcover NAB and Jerusalem Bibles. There might even be a D-R Challoner or two, I forget.
...The parish where I grew up (heavily Irish and Italian) probably had enough Bibles in the entranceways to supply every family that attended."
this is just an anecdote. I posted the link from the USCCB that shows Lectionaries are used, not Bibles.
"The Catholic Bible contains the entire OT as written in the Septuagint, which was at the time of Christ, the most widespread and utilized Scripture by the Jews - including Jesus and the Apostles."
The Septuagint was a translation of texts from the Hebrew, which can not be said to be the "most" widepread, only widespread. The Masoretic text collections were also widespread. Neither were "canonical" and each had their followers. It's not logical to conclude that the Jews removed the deuterocanonical texts, because they were never common.
No.
Yes.
"My church is set up to enter the 'gathering area' or small hall and then enter the church itself through internal double doors. On the table just outside the doors is a family sized St. Joseph edition leatherbound (impressive - I bought one - from the church), as well as a pile of softcover NAB and Jerusalem Bibles. There might even be a D-R Challoner or two, I forget.
...The parish where I grew up (heavily Irish and Italian) probably had enough Bibles in the entranceways to supply every family that attended."
this is just an anecdote. I posted the link from the USCCB that shows Lectionaries are used, not Bibles.
Lectionaries are used by the lectors, not the congregation. Missals and entire Bibles are used by the congregation.
The Catholic Bible contains the entire OT as written in the Septuagint, which was at the time of Christ, the most widespread and utilized Scripture by the Jews - including Jesus and the Apostles."
The Septuagint was a translation of texts from the Hebrew, which can not be said to be the "most" widepread, only widespread. The Masoretic text collections were also widespread. Neither were "canonical" and each had their followers. It's not logical to conclude that the Jews removed the deuterocanonical texts, because they were never common.
Hebrew was almost a dead language at the time of Christ. Greek was the lingua franca of the world. Aramaic was the common language used by Jesus and the Apostles. Latin was the language of the military conquerors - the Romans.
Only those immediately connected with the temples knew anything of Hebrew. The common folk did not, any more than the common folk now in the West know Latin (or even French), whereas formerly they did.
There are many, many reasons to doubt that was the case. No doubt Aramaic and Greek were widespread, but there is no reason to think Hebrew was not still in use as an everyday language. Classical Hebrew was the language of the Mishnah (as well as most Dead Sea scrolls). A few hundred years later, Aramaic was used for the Gemara.
Agreed.
However, one must look at those doing the writings. There is little Hebrew from the merchants and regular citizens of the era. Virtually none that I am aware of. The only Hebrew that I am aware of is the religious writings of the religious caste of that era.
The Bar Kochba era left behind mundane communications in Hebrew replete with slang and acronyms.
‘Religious caste’ has always had a different meaning for Jews, where ordinary men were always expected to be literate.
With limited participants that I am aware of.
‘Religious caste’ has always had a different meaning for Jews, where ordinary men were always expected to be literate.
Agreed. The literacy in the middle East was expected to be in Greek, not Hebrew.
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