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To: RegulatorCountry; boatbums; CynicalBear; RnMomof7; metmom; presently no screen name; ...
A virgin with child clearly references the birth of Jesus Christ and his mother, Mary.

I disagree. I just read Rev 12 again (NKJV) and the reference is always the woman, which is usually representative of Israel. Also, if this chapter in Revelation is referencing May why didn't John say so? John knew her better than anyone, he was given the responsibility of looking after her.

The misinterpretation that the woman is Mary is probably because of her elevation in status outside of Scripture. I think while we should always respect Mary and her role in Jesus Christ coming to be with us we should temper that respect with the recognition that she had no role in his ministry on Earth. Mary was only in close proximity to Jesus on a few occasions after Jesus began his ministry. Mary was at the wedding in Cana. Mary came with Jesus' brothers to take him home and at the Cross. Mary was not among those who ministered to Jesus during His ministry and she is not mentioned at any of His appearances before or after the ascension.

The status of Mary is way overblown. His human spirit was given to Him by God the Father and His divine Spirit has always existed with the Father. God the Father raised Him from the dead and gave him His glorified body. What Mary gave Jesus died in the grave. So the interpretation that Mary has a role in the Tribulation is inconsistent with Scripture.

RC I pinged a few others that might be able to add to the discussion.

285 posted on 12/29/2011 8:58:35 AM PST by wmfights (PERRY 2012)
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To: wmfights

A woman with child has clear reference back to the nativity, wmfights. You won’t often find me in agreement with our Catholic contingent and at odds with our Protestant and fundamentalist contingents, and while I certainly don’t agree with the further meaning derived by Catholics from this prophecy, it’s plain that a woman with child in the Bible symbolizes Mary and the birth of Jesus Christ.

I don’t disagree at all with what you’ve said, but the additional symbolism is not something I’m able to deny. I will, however, continue to maintain that what you’ve put forth is not the only meaning. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ. Israel gave birth to the Messiah. This will lay bare that they are one and the same, to all, particularly those of the Covenant who denied Him.

It’s also one of those signs and wonders in the sky. Yes, signs have a definitely mixed bag in the Bible. Signs of His coming have not been denigrated or condemned, though.

I stand open to being corrected, but this does fit quite well for any number of reasons. Traditional interpretations appear to have become polarized due to various splits and schisms, and continuing elaboration has obscured a basic truth in at least one instance. That is how it appears to me.

Educate me if I need it; I’m pretty sure that process is far from over.


287 posted on 12/29/2011 9:25:52 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: wmfights
>> The status of Mary is way overblown.<<

That would be true in the CC especially. Jesus own words would show that to be true.

Luke 11:27-28 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Nay rather, (Greek Menounge: nay surely, nay rather) blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

288 posted on 12/29/2011 9:31:57 AM PST by CynicalBear
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