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To: Mad Dawg; smvoice; metmom; caww; daniel1212
Paracletos

The early church identified the Paraclete as the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5,1:8,2:4,2:38) and Christians continue to use Paraclete as a title for the Spirit of God. In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 5 v. 4 Jesus Christ uses the verb παρακληθήσονται, paraclethesontai, traditionally interpreted to signify "to be refreshed, encouraged, or comforted". The text may also be translated as vocative as well as the traditional nominative.[ The Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha Bible Translation] Then the meaning of 'paraclethesontai', also informative of the meaning of the name, or noun Paraclete, implicates 'are going to summon' or 'will be breaking off'... The Paraclete may thus mean 'the summoner' or 'the one, who, or that which makes free'[http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=paraklhqh%2Fsontai&la=greek&prior=au%29toi\&d=Perseus:text:1999.01.0155:book=Matthew:chapter=5&i=1]

In 1 John 2:1 "Paraclete" is used to describe the intercessory role of Jesus Christ who pleads to The Father on our behalf. And in John 14:16 Jesus says "another Paraclete" will come to help his disciples, implying Jesus is the first and primary Paraclete. [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Paracletos]

Apostolos: a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders. [http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=652]

Would you say that all believers are told to be a messenger or one sent forth to spread the gospel?

407 posted on 11/01/2011 2:05:31 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
I cannot recommend enough the Kittel Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, which was given to me as an ordination present. It is most definitely NOT a Catholic work. If you like this stuff as much as I do, you will take one of the ten volumes(!) to bed with you just to browse. I'm serious, this is great stuff, though not all the articles are of the same quality, none is bad, and some will blow your mind.

Scriptural and Patristic Greek diction is not only affected by Koine "as she is spoke", but by the LXX. One of the conjectures which seems to merit a high level of confidence is that the καλεω words -- including "ecclesia" and "paraclete" -- were influenced by the Hebrew word QaHaL and its cognates.

The "QaHaL Y**H" is the 'called out of -- a name even I will not type -- the Adoshem, the LORD. The very phrase reminds us of the assembly outside the camp near Horeb/Sinai.

So we have three issues to deal with: Παρακλητος (and all the related words) in secular Koine, in the LXX (and therefore the words it translates in the MT), and in what I think of as the emerging Christian, NT, Patristic "technical vocabulary."

Kittel spends pages on this. But what seems to emerge are two themes:

(1) In the OT/MT it means the "comforter" not only in the strict sense of one who gives fortitude - strength - courage, but in our usual sense of one who puts us at ease by 'making us comfortable,' especially in a time of grief or affliction. But even there I think one will find overtones of "champion" (one who will fight for one's cause) and advocate.

(2) Advocate. And here we are to think of a Greek or a Roman trial, where one might hire a "mouthpiece" who would summon the assembly and 'call out" for one's cause.


Our case for "apostello" would be a lot easier to make if John had, in John 20:21, not used both the apostello verb AND πεμπο in the same verse.

Still my (full-disclosure: post my becoming a Catholic) conclusion is that what we have here is the early stage of the development of a technical vocabulary, a 'jargon'.

To me, the way to limp through this resurrection appearance narrative is this

  1. TWICE IHS blesses them with a greeting of "Peace be with you;"; in between the greetings he shows them his hands and his side.
  2. He announces that as He was sent (form of 'apostello'), so he sends (form of 'pempo') them.
  3. He breathes on them and says, "Receive the Holy Spirit (Πνευμα).
  4. He gives them at least some details of their "commission": whose soever sins ye remit ....

My personal opinion is that to 'get' what "Apostle" means, we have to get a world where communication was rarely faster than a human could travel. The closest contemporary legal concept is an "agent".

And the maxim of the law is, "The Principle is responsible for the acts of the Agent." So if a REAL State Farm agent sells me a policy but pockets my premiums, State Farm is still on the hook when my house burns down.

Things would have HAD to be like that in secular affairs. I am a petty king of some tributary to Rome. When Caesar's "Apostle" shows up, I treat him as if he were Caesar, and he and I view the agreements we reach as agreements between me and Caesar. And when I send "my man" to go deal with some fractious city, I usually would just have to tell him, "Look, I trust you. Find out what their beef is, do the right thing, and get them to pay their damn taxes. See you in a month. You need my ring, or can you do it without that? How about a century of psychopathic soldiers-- you want that? I sure hope not."

So, by MY reading, a "Paraclete" MOSTLY represents us to God, while an "Apostle" MOSTLY represents God to us..


.

So the Pope and the Holy Spirit are not in the same business,or, at least with respect to whom they are representing,they are representing different parties.

AND THAT is an example of why we have to ride loose to the analogical language we must use in talking about divine things. What ever you may think of us, Catholics really do trust that the Pope and the Holy Spirit are playing for the same team, even if they play different positions.


Would you say that all believers are told to be a messenger or one sent forth to spread the gospel?

Yes and no.

Don't you HATE that? :-)

(YOu didn't expect "War and Peace" did you?)

As far as I can ascertain from I Cor 12 and Eph 4:11-13 is that NOT all havre an apostolic ministry in the fullest sense, but still we are all apostles in the sense that our manner of living will reflect on God and on the Gospel.He still binds himself to our acts,in that when we we be have disgracefully, he bears the insult and contempt which follow.

My neighbor and friend, BL, "tried" going to church in a local Baptist congregation, but quit because he saw what he thought was sin and hypocrisy. (He'd probably faint in a Catholic church.)

But when Paul asks, "Are all Apostles?" I think he expects the answer "no." And, to use his analogy, when my big toe hurts, or when my stomach and respiratory system are not up to snuff, my discourse here will be compromised. But I don't ask my big toe to read my Greek Testament or my lungs to type on my key-board.

And when the head of our RCIA program says he's worried if I am qualified to teach at all, I'm okay with that because I can still write and correspond, and it's his job to worry about that, while it's mine to look for chances to talk about the Love of God.

It is, after all, in Him that I put my trust.

516 posted on 11/01/2011 7:32:52 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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To: CynicalBear

So, is the Holy Spirit God? or a representative of God?


589 posted on 11/02/2011 9:18:16 AM PDT by Jvette
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