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To: MarkBsnr; metmom; CynicalBear; boatbums; Jvette
"Let us not forget 2 Tim. 1:13-14 and 2:1-2. And 1 Tim. 4:11 and 6:20. And there are others."

None of the verses you gave me have references to "tradition" or "traditions" in them. But they DO have something that will give you an "Ah-HAH..Of COURSE" moment if you THINK about it.

1 Tim.4:11 and 6:20: He was exhorting Tim. and giving him instructions IN THIS LETTER. It's the letter that is giving Timothy the "THESE THINGS COMMAND" of v.11 and "Keep that which is committed to thy trust" of 6:20. There was no tradition to be referenced.

As to 2 Tim. 1:13-14; and 2:1-2: We know that Timothy had more than just the Old Testament. 2 Tim. was written about 66 AD. This is Paul's SECOND epistle to him. So he has at least two epistles from Paul in addition to the OT. Paul states in 2 Tim. 4:6-8 that he is about to be martyred, making 2 Tim. the last epistle Paul wrote. So Timothy, OBVIOUSLY, has ALL of Paul's epistles. Because the date of this last epistle is about 66 AD, he also has the first three Gospels and most of the rest of the New Testament.

Whatever oral traditions were handed down, were WRITTEN DOWN by then. Don't forget 2 Peter 3:15-16, where he is speaking of Paul, in ALL his epistles. And saying that those epistles, like OTHER SCRIPTURES, are wrest by unlearned and unstable people unto their own destruction.

2,978 posted on 11/20/2011 8:05:39 AM PST by smvoice ("What, compare Scripture with Scripture?..We'll have to double the Magisterium...")
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To: smvoice
Whatever oral traditions were handed down, were WRITTEN DOWN by then. Don't forget 2 Peter 3:15-16, where he is speaking of Paul, in ALL his epistles. And saying that those epistles, like OTHER SCRIPTURES, are wrest by unlearned and unstable people unto their own destruction.

Not all. Nicea came almost 300 years later. And Timothy was instructed by Paul in these and other matters (in which either orally or in other letters that do not show up the NT) still contain his instructions and his tradition. Don't forget that the Didache and Hermas et al were used as Scripture by many Christians and it wasn't until Nicea that the canon was declared. We're still not sure how the Apocalypse of John made it into the Bible and certain others like Enoch did not.

Do you think that Paul, a learned upper class and literate Jew only wrote what is now in the NT?

3,276 posted on 11/21/2011 5:28:42 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: smvoice
Whatever oral traditions were handed down, were WRITTEN DOWN by then. Don't forget 2 Peter 3:15-16, where he is speaking of Paul, in ALL his epistles. And saying that those epistles, like OTHER SCRIPTURES, are wrest by unlearned and unstable people unto their own destruction.

Not all. Nicea came almost 300 years later. And Timothy was instructed by Paul in these and other matters (in which either orally or in other letters that do not show up the NT) still contain his instructions and his tradition. Don't forget that the Didache and Hermas et al were used as Scripture by many Christians and it wasn't until Nicea that the canon was declared. We're still not sure how the Apocalypse of John made it into the Bible and certain others like Enoch did not.

Do you think that Paul, a learned upper class and literate Jew only wrote what is now in the NT?

3,277 posted on 11/21/2011 5:31:41 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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