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To: Just mythoughts; dangus
I suppose I could heap up a mountain of evidence snipping and clipping here and there words, to prove any thing.

It's not snipping and clipping at all. It is, unlike the quotes people are tossing around here from the Pauline Epistles, directly relevant to the subject at hand.

Dangus is right. Kecharitomene is a perfect tense verb. That means, in Greek, that the action was already completed. What Gabriel calls Mary is something like "The already-having-been-graced one." This passage isn't explicit when that happened--but it's clear it happened before the Angel spoke these words.

Do you think it is purely an accident that the Greek Church calls Mary the "Panagia", the "All Holy"? You think they can't understand their own language?

46 posted on 03/20/2011 1:36:48 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud

Great point.


47 posted on 03/20/2011 1:43:04 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: Claud
It's not snipping and clipping at all. It is, unlike the quotes people are tossing around here from the Pauline Epistles, directly relevant to the subject at hand. Dangus is right. Kecharitomene is a perfect tense verb. That means, in Greek, that the action was already completed. What Gabriel calls Mary is something like "The already-having-been-graced one." This passage isn't explicit when that happened--but it's clear it happened before the Angel spoke these words. Do you think it is purely an accident that the Greek Church calls Mary the "Panagia", the "All Holy"? You think they can't understand their own language?

Well I suppose then the disagreement comes down to who gets to determine what Scriptures have weight. I can see why Paul is not a big time favorite given he sure did neglect to defiy Mary. I mean really here we have Paul, sinner indeed, elected to pen the majority of the 'NEW' Testament, and all his Epistles instruct that salvation comes from the Heavenly Father in Christ... and then imagine Paul says allllll have sinned and short of the glory, that 'grace' comes from Christ.

Might even say that Mary's overflowing perfect grace came from Christ.

48 posted on 03/20/2011 1:47:04 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Claud

Sometimes it reads as if the creation and various other man made objects are given far more veneration than the Creator garners even a hint of worship.


49 posted on 03/20/2011 1:49:27 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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